[nagdu] walking in to objects

[Hannah Chadwick]

Thank you Tami. I will try various things and see what works if anything.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tami Kinney
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 12:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] walking in to objects

Cindy,

DD has finally learned that rule. If the dog is walking me off a cliff or in
front of a bus, by all means yell! Otherwise, let her do her job and let us
work out mistakes that do come up. It's difficult for him, but he is getting
better. /grin/

To work a clearance problem, though... As I conceived it in training Mitzi,
the thing to communicate to the dog is that the dog is responsible for
clearing. This is a responsibility the dog cannot space on. Faulty clearance
is not okay, it causes problems, so you my darling poodle, had better clear
things or we will have to keep doing it over until you do. The more times
you fudge the clearance, the more annoying I will become about working it
again... And so forth.

Also, at least in my opinion, letting the dog slide on smaller key
responsibilities increases the likelihood the dog will slip up when it
counts and you're walking off a cliff with no one to yell, "Stop!"

For myself, I would find coaching most helpful if the sighted coach could
follow along and see what is going on when mistakes happen. 
Especially at first, that would have been a big bonus! The bright side is
that I have learned to be much, much  more aware of my own surroundings and
what is going on with my dog. But that takes, as they say, time. And working
through those times when you do lose trust in your dog, which can also
translate to the dog and increase the likelihood of mistakes. So that is a
toughie. You need to trust the dog to set it up for success. But you get
hurt if your trust is misplaced... 
And if you don't question your team in times like that, then you're less
human that way than I am. /lol/ It's a really tricky balance.

I dunno, Hannah. Can you talk to your trainer and ask for more observation
without interfering in your team work? Seeing what is distracting the dog
that may be something you can't see or hear could be really helpful. Then
you could work on that sort of distraction. Or maybe there is something in
her body language or demeanor that you can't pick up by feel because you are
literally too close to her. Is her tail up? How is her head set? Stuff like
that. In time, you will become more sensitive and aware of such things, but
at first it is harder to tell the fine points of what the dog's body
language could be telling you. So having an observer to see what is going on
can be a real help in diagnosing the root of the problem. Also, having some
reliable observation of what you are doing is a good way to diagnose if
handler error could be a fact. Not to suggest you're in the wrong, but it
does happen. And it's awfully hard to notice while you're building up
experience as a handler. Or sometimes even when you have. /smile/ But the
mutual diagnosis does get easier, so that's a plus!

So what I would find helpful in terms of a critique on my handling would be
specific descriptions of my own body language, foot placement, tracking with
my dog, etc. I'm not interested in a long diatribe of the "you're doing
everything wrong!" type. Not helpful. But especially at first when I was
transitioning from trainer to handler, I would have loved someone to follow
me everywhere and suggest where I could improve so I didn't have to work so
hard to figure out what I was doing wrong myself. /lol/ Well, you got a lot
of that in school, so that's a plus. 
But the real world is more complex, so that's why it takes time in team
building.

Again, I'm just tossing things out. I can tell how much you love Princes,
and that she is capable of excellent work. So I hope you are able to iron
this out. The period of wondering is the worst for sure! 
And the decision that it can't be worked out would be heartbreaking. 
You're not the only one to go through it, but that doesn't make it easier, I
am sure.

Best,

Tami

On 04/14/2012 06:04 PM, Cindy Ray wrote:
> I would want to qualify my last message. I suspect that there are times
that one would want the trainer to yell at you to stop. If the dog was
taking you out in traffic and a car was coming, or you were about to walk
off a cliff or subway platform; and so that is all a judgment call, but I
was just wondering if the dog is getting to make mistakes enough to correct?
>
> CL
>
>
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