[nagdu] Tell the whole truth

Wed Apr 18 22:46:54 UTC 2012

Hi Larry,
That's unfortunate.  Maybe the NFB or other consumer-advocacy organizations 
can provide sensitivity information on that topic?  I have a friend who is 
blind and in an assisted-living facility, and staffers tell him that if he 
gets a dog he'd be more confident.  It's such a shame that the lack of 
knowledge is so rampant because information is not widely publicized.
Best,
Nat and Liam Joshua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth

> I'm sure that some of the students, especially the newly blind don't know 
> there rights and really are sort of ignorant.  In some of those cases, i'm 
> sure that iether some staff at schools, some rehab counsellors and even 
> doctors don't know or try to think for others.  Of course, nothing comes 
> good out of that but, i'm sure it happens.  An example, I met an older 
> woman who had issues with walking who said her doctor sent her to get a 
> dog.  She didn't really know cane travel and her memory wasn't that good. 
> She couldn't even remember her dogs name!  She fell and had to go home. 
> But, she was doing what others thaught would be good for her and didn't 
> know what else to do!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>
>
>> Now there is something to be said about that. Do all the schools care 
>> about
>> what dogs they are putting out? I assume they do, why wouldn't they care? 
>> I
>> mean we as blind people, are the helpless, stupid sort, that are not
>> educated to what makes for a good school and what makes for a bad school.
>> The guide dog schools are business of course, so the more helpless they 
>> make
>> us, the more money they get. The more money they get, the more dogs they 
>> can
>> put out, and perhaps the less the dog will be "good". I am not sure if 
>> this
>> happens, but I am sure it does.
>>
>> Interesting branch of the discussion,
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Larry D. Keeler
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>
>> I aggree Marsha!  But, in the interest of learning, it sure would be nice 
>> to
>>
>> learn what school is still doing this!  Also, if the school is a good 
>> one,
>> maybe they don't realize what kind of dogs are coming out of they're
>> training program!  Or, maybe they don't care!
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>
>>
>>> Tracy,
>>>
>>> I think a lot of us would like the same. The good and bad about a school
>>> to
>>> be aired out. The problem with this is that, not all people can give 
>>> good
>>> and bad with out being defensive about it, thus being very emotional 
>>> about
>>> it. There are those guide dog users who are very very loyal to their
>>> school,
>>> and will not admit that their school does any wrong.
>>>
>>> I am going to keep an eye on this thread, as much as I would like to say
>>> that we should talk about the bad and the good, I do not want this list 
>>> to
>>> become a bashing school list. So if we are going to discuss the good and
>>> bad, people MUST be adults. I reserve the right to come in and stop this
>>> thread at any point.
>>>
>>> So discuss away...
>>> Marsha, Moderator
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:32 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>>
>>> Laurel, just as an example,  says she doesn't want to do school bashing,
>>> and I think many people feel this way, but, if people only give the
>>> positive parts of their experience with a school, and none of the
>>> negatives, it doesn't give a true picture.  If I were looking for a
>>> training program, I'd want to know about bad experiences, as well as 
>>> good.
>>> For example, if more than a few people from school X end up returning 
>>> the
>>> dog in less than 2 years, I'd want to know about that.  If several days 
>>> of
>>> training were spent hanging around the mall, I'd want to know that, too.
>>> It was part of what I really liked about Gary's writing about his school
>>> experience--he wrote about the annoying stuff, as well as the good.
>>> I'm not interested in what happened to so-and-so 10 years ago.  I'm not
>>> much interested in hearsay, either.  "A friend of a friend...", nah.
>>> I understand the desire not to air dirty laundry in public; I really do.
>>> But, in its darkest aspect, that's how abuse goes on--no one wants to 
>>> say
>>> anything about it. Not that I'm accusing any school of abusing students;
>>> it's just one end of a continuum.
>>> If someone has had a bad experience, I have no problem with them naming
>>> names.  I don't think that's bashing; it's just letting other know so 
>>> they
>>> can make informed decisions.
>>> And, if someone has something negative to say about my beloved school, I
>>> promise to take a deep breath, not get defensive, and consider what
>>> they've said.
>>> JMHO.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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