[nagdu] Tell the whole truth

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Wed Apr 18 23:26:34 UTC 2012 

Yah, Natalie!  I hope that we can make folks aware of many things!  For 
instance, I went to Michigan School for the Blind, I learned a lot!  But, I 
didn't learn about organizations like NFB or ACB.  I also didn't really 
learn about dog travel and how it was different than cane travel.  I only 
knew that someday I might choose.  And, this was a school for the Blind! 
Not a public school!  We did learn to stick up for ourselves though!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Natalie" <nrorrell at qwest.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth


> Hi Larry,
> That's unfortunate.  Maybe the NFB or other consumer-advocacy 
> organizations can provide sensitivity information on that topic?  I have a 
> friend who is blind and in an assisted-living facility, and staffers tell 
> him that if he gets a dog he'd be more confident.  It's such a shame that 
> the lack of knowledge is so rampant because information is not widely 
> publicized.
> Best,
> Nat and Liam Joshua
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>
>
>> I'm sure that some of the students, especially the newly blind don't know 
>> there rights and really are sort of ignorant.  In some of those cases, 
>> i'm sure that iether some staff at schools, some rehab counsellors and 
>> even doctors don't know or try to think for others.  Of course, nothing 
>> comes good out of that but, i'm sure it happens.  An example, I met an 
>> older woman who had issues with walking who said her doctor sent her to 
>> get a dog.  She didn't really know cane travel and her memory wasn't that 
>> good. She couldn't even remember her dogs name!  She fell and had to go 
>> home. But, she was doing what others thaught would be good for her and 
>> didn't know what else to do!
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>
>>
>>> Now there is something to be said about that. Do all the schools care 
>>> about
>>> what dogs they are putting out? I assume they do, why wouldn't they 
>>> care? I
>>> mean we as blind people, are the helpless, stupid sort, that are not
>>> educated to what makes for a good school and what makes for a bad 
>>> school.
>>> The guide dog schools are business of course, so the more helpless they 
>>> make
>>> us, the more money they get. The more money they get, the more dogs they 
>>> can
>>> put out, and perhaps the less the dog will be "good". I am not sure if 
>>> this
>>> happens, but I am sure it does.
>>>
>>> Interesting branch of the discussion,
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Larry D. Keeler
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:52 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>>
>>> I aggree Marsha!  But, in the interest of learning, it sure would be 
>>> nice to
>>>
>>> learn what school is still doing this!  Also, if the school is a good 
>>> one,
>>> maybe they don't realize what kind of dogs are coming out of they're
>>> training program!  Or, maybe they don't care!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:56 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tracy,
>>>>
>>>> I think a lot of us would like the same. The good and bad about a 
>>>> school
>>>> to
>>>> be aired out. The problem with this is that, not all people can give 
>>>> good
>>>> and bad with out being defensive about it, thus being very emotional 
>>>> about
>>>> it. There are those guide dog users who are very very loyal to their
>>>> school,
>>>> and will not admit that their school does any wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to keep an eye on this thread, as much as I would like to 
>>>> say
>>>> that we should talk about the bad and the good, I do not want this list 
>>>> to
>>>> become a bashing school list. So if we are going to discuss the good 
>>>> and
>>>> bad, people MUST be adults. I reserve the right to come in and stop 
>>>> this
>>>> thread at any point.
>>>>
>>>> So discuss away...
>>>> Marsha, Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:32 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Tell the whole truth
>>>>
>>>> Laurel, just as an example,  says she doesn't want to do school 
>>>> bashing,
>>>> and I think many people feel this way, but, if people only give the
>>>> positive parts of their experience with a school, and none of the
>>>> negatives, it doesn't give a true picture.  If I were looking for a
>>>> training program, I'd want to know about bad experiences, as well as 
>>>> good.
>>>> For example, if more than a few people from school X end up returning 
>>>> the
>>>> dog in less than 2 years, I'd want to know about that.  If several days 
>>>> of
>>>> training were spent hanging around the mall, I'd want to know that, 
>>>> too.
>>>> It was part of what I really liked about Gary's writing about his 
>>>> school
>>>> experience--he wrote about the annoying stuff, as well as the good.
>>>> I'm not interested in what happened to so-and-so 10 years ago.  I'm not
>>>> much interested in hearsay, either.  "A friend of a friend...", nah.
>>>> I understand the desire not to air dirty laundry in public; I really 
>>>> do.
>>>> But, in its darkest aspect, that's how abuse goes on--no one wants to 
>>>> say
>>>> anything about it. Not that I'm accusing any school of abusing 
>>>> students;
>>>> it's just one end of a continuum.
>>>> If someone has had a bad experience, I have no problem with them naming
>>>> names.  I don't think that's bashing; it's just letting other know so 
>>>> they
>>>> can make informed decisions.
>>>> And, if someone has something negative to say about my beloved school, 
>>>> I
>>>> promise to take a deep breath, not get defensive, and consider what
>>>> they've said.
>>>> JMHO.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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