[nagdu] How would you respond?

Tue Apr 24 14:51:47 UTC 2012

Control is just an illusion.  We all think we can control other people, 
the situation, our dogs or whatever, but really all we can control is 
ourselves.

Julie

9:26 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
> Yes, because the thing is that you are supposed to be able to control 
> your dog!  You are supposed to do this under all circumstances.  Those 
> whom have pet dogs that do this can be sued and have to pay fines or 
> in some circumstances go to jail!  There is no excuse for letting your 
> dog attack another dog!  If its the dog fault, the handler should know 
> his-her dog well enough to keep it out of those situations!  If the 
> dog was offleash, he gets what he gets!  If not black listed then 
> certainly observed very carefuly when next going through a training 
> program!  I know folks who have had guide dogs that value a little 
> aggression.  I don't believe in any aggressive dog who's handler can't 
> control it.  I'm suggesting that sence the dog and handler are both 
> members of a team, they should know each other and how they will 
> react!  A new team might get some leanency because they might not know 
> each other well but otherwise.  This society puts down dogs who become 
> aggressive to humans.  The assumption I am making is that both parties 
> should have had control of there dogs and the one who was the attacker 
> should have been controlled!  Nothing hard or complicated about that!
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" <mewhalen at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>
>
>> Wow...this message sure is full of assumptions.  The person should be 
>> black listed because he or she received a dog which attacked another 
>> dog. I do not think dogs are taught aggression.  I think dogs will be 
>> dogs, and it is very unfortunate that this happened, but in no way, 
>> what-so-ever does that mean this handler should never have a guide 
>> again.  My first guide bit one of my pet dogs.  I should probably 
>> have never been given another dog, then, I suppose.  I must have 
>> taught her to bite.  Shame on me.
>>
>> I am sorry this message comes off as rude, but I am really really 
>> tired of people assuming it is the person's fault.  We talk about 
>> wanting to be treated fairly and equally by guide dog training 
>> programs.  We say that we are adults and should be treated as such, 
>> and then, more than one person I have come across automatically 
>> blames the handler.  If I buy a new microwave, and I bring it home 
>> and plug it in and it doesn't work, did I do something wrong?  No, 
>> there was a problem with the manufacturing of the product.  If I 
>> bring a dog home, and that dog does not guide effectively, or she 
>> barks and/or growls at other dogs, that is not my fault, either. That 
>> does not mean I should not work with the dog to improve the problems 
>> if it seems they could be fixed, but the handler is not always 
>> responsible for what the dog does or does not know.  Please recall 
>> that before a dog is matched with a blind person, the dog has had a 
>> year and a half to two years growing and learning and having 
>> experiences we will never know about.  I am very disappointed in 
>> people who would not wish to be treated in exactly the way they are 
>> treating people who cannot defend themselves.
>>
>> Meghan
>> On 4/24/2012 4:45 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>> Oh, thats bad!  Guides are deffinetely not supposed to do that!  I 
>>> think both schools should be contacted and the case should be taken 
>>> to court. I get the feeling that someone really relaxed there 
>>> control of there dog! The attacker should be subject to the fullness 
>>> of the law!  And maybe even black listed with all of the schools!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson" 
>>> <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>> Both dogs were guides.  What I do not know if they were both in 
>>>> harness, but
>>>> both students were attending the blind skills training program and 
>>>> had their
>>>> guides there as well.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J.
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:37 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>>
>>>> I'd find out who the owner of the dog was.  If there are state laws
>>>> addressing this issue, I'd have a visit with the police and file the
>>>> appropriate paperwork.
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what I'd do about my own dog though.  Probably take 
>>>> it very
>>>> easy for a while.  then very gently introduce calm, gentle dogs to 
>>>> see how
>>>> it went.
>>>>
>>>> Or was the other dog also a guide?  I wasn't exactly sure from your
>>>> description of things.  I don't know that that would substantially 
>>>> change my
>>>> approach, except that I might also let the program know that I was 
>>>> filing a
>>>> report with the police.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>> On 4/23/2012 5:51 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>>>>> Another what would you do question, or maybe, how would you respond
>>>>> scenarios for you all to ponder.  Many times, we hear of guides and
>>>>> other service dogs being attacked by other stray or uncontrolled 
>>>>> dogs,
>>>>> rendering the attacked dog unable to continue in their line of work.
>>>>> Today, I learned from a colleague at work, that her son's good 
>>>>> friend,
>>>>> who is blind and attending a formal blind training program, had his
>>>>> dog viciously attacked by another dog.  The injuries were severe, the
>>>>> attacked was unprovoked and the trainers had to break up the fight,
>>>>> but the guide that was attacked, is now showing very serious signs 
>>>>> of fear
>>>> and anxiety.
>>>>>
>>>>> What would you do if you were the handler?
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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