[nagdu] How would you respond?
Lyn Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Tue Apr 24 22:20:11 UTC 2012
Lea and Cindy,
Sorry that the more outspoken folks on the list are getting you down. I've
been on this list for several years and see this go on but I also see the
good helpful folks as well.
I don't like some of the stuff I see from many very frequent posters getting
into it with each other over the list. Sometimes, I just let that
discussion go by even if I want to say something but fighting isn't really
something I relish. I'm not a wuss but I've learned in my 61 years to pick
my battles and some of the listers who engage in fights on list are mostly
younger folks who haven't really learned that yet. LOL! Hey, folks, I was
young and fought alot myself before i grew up! LOL! Boy, to think of how I
used to get into it with folks and not very respectfully at that. You know,
the stereotypical red headed temper! I'm still red headed but much more
mellow! Landon's got the grey hairs.
I like that people express themselves and have strong feeling on stuff. If
a discussion is getting out of hand i just don't post and let things mellow
out a bit. I have got much more positive things from this list than the
occassional unpleasantness. I haven't seen any real meanness from anyone on
the list - just energetic debaters!
I hope you two will reconsider leaving the list.
Regards,
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lea williams" <leanicole1988 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
> Cindy, i have to agree with you. I have been debating on if I should
> do that same thing, to unsubscribe.
>
> I have loads of questions and things i would love to ask but I am
> afraid to, because of the responces I see that comes across this list.
>
> So much drama and aggression.
>
>
> On 4/24/12, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You know what? I fully disagree with you. You don't always know what is
>> going to happen until you are in the middle of it. Things happen. I am
>> unsubscribing from this list because I'm sick of the judgmental attitude
>> here. I've exhibited it myself sometimes, and I don't like it in myself
>> either. The only real reason I can see for staying here is that I can
>> learn
>> more about whasup at convention.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, because the thing is that you are supposed to be able to control
>>> your
>>> dog! You are supposed to do this under all circumstances. Those whom
>>> have pet dogs that do this can be sued and have to pay fines or in some
>>> circumstances go to jail! There is no excuse for letting your dog
>>> attack
>>> another dog! If its the dog fault, the handler should know his-her dog
>>> well enough to keep it out of those situations! If the dog was
>>> offleash,
>>> he gets what he gets! If not black listed then certainly observed very
>>> carefuly when next going through a training program! I know folks who
>>> have had guide dogs that value a little aggression. I don't believe in
>>> any aggressive dog who's handler can't control it. I'm suggesting that
>>> sence the dog and handler are both members of a team, they should know
>>> each other and how they will react! A new team might get some leanency
>>> because they might not know each other well but otherwise. This society
>>> puts down dogs who become aggressive to humans. The assumption I am
>>> making is that both parties should have had control of there dogs and
>>> the
>>> one who was the attacker should have been controlled! Nothing hard or
>>> complicated about that!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" <mewhalen at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:09 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wow...this message sure is full of assumptions. The person should be
>>>> black listed because he or she received a dog which attacked another
>>>> dog.
>>>> I do not think dogs are taught aggression. I think dogs will be dogs,
>>>> and it is very unfortunate that this happened, but in no way,
>>>> what-so-ever does that mean this handler should never have a guide
>>>> again.
>>>> My first guide bit one of my pet dogs. I should probably have never
>>>> been given another dog, then, I suppose. I must have taught her to
>>>> bite.
>>>> Shame on me.
>>>>
>>>> I am sorry this message comes off as rude, but I am really really tired
>>>> of people assuming it is the person's fault. We talk about wanting to
>>>> be
>>>> treated fairly and equally by guide dog training programs. We say that
>>>> we are adults and should be treated as such, and then, more than one
>>>> person I have come across automatically blames the handler. If I buy a
>>>> new microwave, and I bring it home and plug it in and it doesn't work,
>>>> did I do something wrong? No, there was a problem with the
>>>> manufacturing
>>>> of the product. If I bring a dog home, and that dog does not guide
>>>> effectively, or she barks and/or growls at other dogs, that is not my
>>>> fault, either. That does not mean I should not work with the dog to
>>>> improve the problems if it seems they could be fixed, but the handler
>>>> is
>>>> not always responsible for what the dog does or does not know. Please
>>>> recall that before a dog is matched with a blind person, the dog has
>>>> had
>>>> a year and a half to two years growing and learning and having
>>>> experiences we will never know about. I am very disappointed in people
>>>> who would not wish to be treated in exactly the way they are treating
>>>> people who cannot defend themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Meghan
>>>> On 4/24/2012 4:45 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>>>> Oh, thats bad! Guides are deffinetely not supposed to do that! I
>>>>> think
>>>>> both schools should be contacted and the case should be taken to
>>>>> court.
>>>>> I get the feeling that someone really relaxed there control of there
>>>>> dog! The attacker should be subject to the fullness of the law! And
>>>>> maybe even black listed with all of the schools!
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson"
>>>>> <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:17 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>> Both dogs were guides. What I do not know if they were both in
>>>>>> harness, but
>>>>>> both students were attending the blind skills training program and
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> guides there as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Julie J.
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:37 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd find out who the owner of the dog was. If there are state laws
>>>>>> addressing this issue, I'd have a visit with the police and file the
>>>>>> appropriate paperwork.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea what I'd do about my own dog though. Probably take it
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> easy for a while. then very gently introduce calm, gentle dogs to
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> it went.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or was the other dog also a guide? I wasn't exactly sure from your
>>>>>> description of things. I don't know that that would substantially
>>>>>> change my
>>>>>> approach, except that I might also let the program know that I was
>>>>>> filing a
>>>>>> report with the police.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>> On 4/23/2012 5:51 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>> Another what would you do question, or maybe, how would you respond
>>>>>>> scenarios for you all to ponder. Many times, we hear of guides and
>>>>>>> other service dogs being attacked by other stray or uncontrolled
>>>>>>> dogs,
>>>>>>> rendering the attacked dog unable to continue in their line of work.
>>>>>>> Today, I learned from a colleague at work, that her son's good
>>>>>>> friend,
>>>>>>> who is blind and attending a formal blind training program, had his
>>>>>>> dog viciously attacked by another dog. The injuries were severe,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> attacked was unprovoked and the trainers had to break up the fight,
>>>>>>> but the guide that was attacked, is now showing very serious signs
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> fear
>>>>>> and anxiety.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What would you do if you were the handler?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
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