[nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?

Tue Apr 24 18:17:48 UTC 2012

Hannah,

The version of the muzzle hold I use on Mitzi is to place my hands 
straight along the sides of her muzzle from behind. If she's being super 
stubborn about not being quiet on command, I will cup my fingers around 
her mouth to hold it gently closed, unless she is really determined, 
then I will tighten the hold enough to prevent her opening her mouth. I 
will ask her to be quiet while acknowledging that she is telling me 
about something, which seems to let her know she has done her job. 
Unless she is just having a bark fit because she feels like it. She 
doesn't do that in the harness, but every now and then she decides she 
must stand in the back yard and bark just to be barking. Or have a nice 
howl. /lol/

With that muzzle hold, she pulls away, but she does not like such 
treatment, so I have her attention. I will generally use my calm, firm 
voice to repeat quiet... Or shut up you stupid mutt! /lol/ She's more 
likely to be this obstinate out in the yard, really. If we're on a walk 
on leash or if she is working, then I can just direct her forward and be 
insistent. She was being that way a couple of days ago, just walking 
around, but then she gave it up and just prances at the things she was 
barking at the day before. So I praised her for that and laughed, which 
is good reward for her.

I don't know if I've ever tried growling with her... Or the looking in 
the face with my Alpha B look... Just seems to make her more obstinate, 
doing it that way. So I looked for other approaches...

When she decided to try barking in public places, I could cheerfully 
have killed her. But correction didn't work, the muzzle hold didn't 
work... Well, I tried a stronger correction than usual, which made the 
behavior more hardened, so then I had more of a problem. Sigh.

If she was really, really excited, what I started doing was the calming 
body hold, a la the Dog Whisperer. I would hold her leash in one hand 
and drop the harness handle and bend over her with my arm along her side 
and my hand over her foreleg, lightly, enough to contain and limit the 
bouncing and prancing. I discovered I could feel her heart rate that 
way, going at hummingbird speed. With her contained by my one arm I 
would then put my other arm across her chest so my hand was curled 
around her neck, preventing forward leaping and also allowing me to feel 
her tension. Then i could talk to her and kind of adjust how I was 
dealing with her while noting when her heart rate slowed... Then, 
figuring she could listen to sense, I would work some obedience with her 
or address whatever caused all that excitement to teach her to remain 
calm when it was going on.

So for barking in harness, I finally was able to simply draw her head 
away from the distraction and spend less time on the calming hold. I 
would also run my hand along her throat until the barking muscles 
relaxed. Then reward her with high-value treats. Or smelly treats, as I 
call them. /smile/ I was then able to start to use the smelly treats to 
gain her attention and draw her stubborn nose away from the distraction. 
And so on.

It took a lot of patience and consistency, but now if she is startled by 
something and wants to vocalize, she pretty much settles herself. But I 
still always praise and give a food reward if it's convenient. Just to 
reinforce that good behavior! /smile/ If she is having a squirly day, 
then I will do calming stuff and redirection more than correction. The 
correction is most likely still to just set off her obstinate streak. 
Calming and exerting my authority in other ways gets better results, so 
that's how we roll. Also, I talk to her while I'm calming and 
redirecting, since she likes a good chat. I feel fairly silly at times, 
but whatever works. /grin/

Oh, with a pup that is a different kind of obstinate, if very sweet, I 
have growled at her, and it has worked. Once, when I had my hands full 
of squirmy little brick and couldn't do that mama pinch on the back of 
the neck, I actually bit her. Hadn't planned to, so I was as surprised 
as she was, but she did settle down. I have not bitten her again. /lol/ 
I do growl at times with the neck pinch or nose pinch to simulate that 
form of dog discipline. That would never work with Mitzi poodle, but the 
puppy got the message. Call me Big Momma! /lol/

Tami

On 04/23/2012 01:02 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
> Lisa,
> I've done that a few times but there's a small part of me that's afraid
> she'd bight. While I know she absolutely won't, I have a difficult time
> bringing myself to do it because I was bitten when I was younger and there's
> still the fear in me. However, this technique sometimes does work but other
> times she just pulls away.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lisa belville
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:33 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>
> wow, I didn't get that part.  Maybe leaning over and getting right in
> Princess's face while using a hand to clamp shut that long poodly muzzle and
> growling quiet would be a good idea, too.  My last dog was a mumbler, so I'd
> have to do this when he was getting too vocal for the situation.
>
> I'd have to know, too, does she do the howling in harness, out of harness,
> or all three?  Definitely, I wouldn't want it going on in harness, but it
> would be easier to manage if she did it while not working.
>
>
> 1st Law of Procrastination: that which can be done will be done . . .
> TOMORROW!!
> Lisa Belville
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marsha Drenth"<marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:20 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>
>
>> Hannah,
>>
>> I think I read your below message right. Your saying that when your pup
>> sees
>> a squirrel, she howls? Have you tried to say "quiet". Not sure if that is
>> a
>> command they teach at Pilot. I haven't had a pup that howls. But I am sure
>> there is someone on here that could help you resolve that issue.
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Hannah Chadwick
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:54 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>
>> Tracy,
>> I just feel like I come up with one thing or another every week. It
>> horrible! Lol.
>> I'm sure I can compromise, and live with a lot of things, but there are
>> things I just can't stand like howling and not responding because of a
>> squirrel.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:48 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>
>> So Hannah, you think the rest of us all have amazing dogs?  That's nice!
>> It seems to me I'm always poor-mouthing my Benny boy.  He has some amazing
>> qualities, but he has his faults, too.  And some of them are 2 sides of
>> the
>> same coin.  For example, I love his cocky self-confidence.  I'm sure it
>> helps him cope with the big bad city.  But it also makes him hard to
>> correct, since he's so sure he's right in whatever he wants to do.
>>
>> Every dog has faults, to some degree or other.  And every person has to
>> decide, with every dog, these things:
>> Is this fault so serious that I'm unsafe?  Can this fault be fixed, and,
>> if
>> so, how?  If it can't be fixed, can I live with it?
>> And the ones I can live with, if I must, may not be the same ones you can
>> live with, and vice versa.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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