[nagdu] Miniature Horse Article

d m gina dmgina at samobile.net
Tue Apr 24 22:51:13 UTC 2012


Wishing you the best in getting a dog, I know the time will fly by quickly.

Original message:
> Ann, what do you do if you go in to a place to eat? Does your hourse
> get under the table? I am about to get my first guide dog and my uncle
> insist I get a guide hourse. I would like to look more in to the whole
> hourse thing before getting one and maybe next time around I will,
> right now I live in an apartment and I am about to get my dog this
> june, and so on so on. I really do not want to pass up this chance of
> the dog right now. But anyways, I live in North carolina and know that
> some of the training is taken place here. How can I learn more about
> all this? Thanks.

> On 4/24/12, Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hi, Michael,

>> Panda doesn't chase tennis balls--they are too big for her to pick up in her
>> mouth.  But she does love to retrieve a thrown canvas Frisbee as well as
>> other soft toys.  She is a great retriever of dropped objects.  She
>> especially likes to retrieve my keys if I drop them, and she will always
>> pick up a dropped leash.  Imagine how nice that is!  Instead of running off
>> when the leash is inadvertently dropped, your guide calmly picks up the
>> leash loop and insists on putting it right back into your hand.

>> Best,
>> Ann

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Michael Hingson
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:44 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Horse Article

>> Hi,

>> I do not use a horse as Ann knows.  However, from my observations a guide
>> horse can be quite versatile and can be trained more sufficiently than
>> people believe.

>> I think we all need to step back and take a real look at the abilities of
>> these horses.  They bond.  They do work without the need for a second horse.
>> The poop issue is addressed.

>> I don't know if they chase tennis balls, but that is a secondary thing,
>> (grin).  They are quite friendly and well behaved, at least the ones I have
>> met do well.


>> Best,


>> Michael Hingson

>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>  "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
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>> Congratulations to Roselle for winning the title of American Hero Dog, 2011.
>> Please visit http://www.herodogawards.org to participate in the 2012
>> American Humane Association Hero Dog Awards contest and to learn about the
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>> animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit http://www.ronburns.com/roselle

>> To learn about the KnfbReader Mobile please visit:
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Ann Edie
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:26 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Horse Article

>> Hi, Frandi,

>> I'm afraid that your statements with regard to miniature horses do not
>> square with the experience of those of us who have trained and worked with
>> miniature horse guides for the past decade.  Just as some of the statements
>> made by people quoted in the original article, your statements do not seem
>> to be based on actual experience or fact.

>> Best,
>> Ann

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Frandi Galindo
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:26 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Horse Article

>> The Idea of a guide horse is awesome, but think about it.  There are more
>> things that a guide horse has to carry.  I don't think you can train a horse
>> to only pea or poop in the grass.  Unlike a horse, a dog can tuck itself in
>> under a table, or on a bus, a car or a boat, I am sure you all know where I
>> am going with this.  Also, with a horse, you have to have at least two of
>> them one to keep the other company as they are herd animals.  I know dogs
>> are pack animals, but its different.  Not sure how to explain it, but it
>> just is.  Don't get me wrong, like I said it would be awesome to have
>> another animal other than a dog as a guide, and I am sure horses could do
>> the job as they are very, very intelligent.  There are so many more things I
>> could say, but we'll leave this email short.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:06 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article

>> Lyn,

>> Is the Woman's Day article  available on the internet anywhere?  I'd love to
>> read it.  I know your friend in the article and admire her a lot.  I hope
>> the article does her justice.

>> Julie




>> On 4/23/2012 7:28 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> Hi Rebecca,
>>> I would imagine there was similar things said about dogs back in the
>>> early days of guide dogs that we see today about the guide horses.

>>> Back in Morris Frank's time (1920s) people didn't bring dogs around
>>> with them like people do today.  Our society is much more dog-friendly
>>> now than it was then.  The society wasn't even disable-friendly as it
>>> is today.  Back in Morris's time, blind people didn't get out and
>>> around like now because they didn't even have the long white cane to
>>> enable folks to travel independently.

>>> I think one of the problems that guide horses will have over guide
>>> dogs is that dogs do live indoors - our homes -  and horses do not.
>>> Horses are considered barn animals.  But, like guide dogs in Morris
>>> Frank's time, guide horses will gain acceptance as people get familiar
>>> with them.

>>> If anyone reads Woman's Day Magazine, the current issue - May 2012 -
>>> there is an article about a good friend of mine who is training her
>>> miniature horse, Angel, to be a guide.  My friend is in contact with
>>> several guide horse users.  Read it if you can.

>>> Like guide dogs, I think the horses will have to prove themselves.

>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
>>> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article


>>>>        Anybody know if the critisism raised about guide horses was
>>>> also raised about guide dogs back in the day? I.E. Dogs live outside,
>>>> they aren't house-broken, that sort of thing.
>>>> I don't recall seeing critisism of that flavor in my reading of the
>>>> Seeing Eye.


>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Steven Johnson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:26 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'; wagdu at nfbwis.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article

>>>> A horse is a horse, of course.

>>>> That's why business owners are getting nervous about a new federal
>>>> regulation requiring a particular breed of horse to be allowed into
>>>> shops and restaurants across the country.

>>>> The Justice Department regulations were tailored for so-called "service"
>>>> horses -- miniature horses that, like service dogs, accompany the
>>>> blind and others with disabilities to help them get around.

>>>> But the rules were a lawsuit waiting to happen, according to critics.
>>>> And
>>>> sure enough, a suit was filed earlier this month in Los Angeles, by a
>>>> man who uses a wheelchair and keeps a miniature horse named Princess
>>>> -- and who claims a local GameStop and Marshalls refused him and his
>>>> horse service.



>>>> Related Slideshow



>>>> Miniature horses -- pet, livestock or service animal?


>>>> Heard of seeing-eye dogs? There's an alternative. Miniature horses,
>>>> while commonly kept on farms, can also be used as "service" animals
>>>> -- to help the blind and disabled get around. A federal rule
>>>> requiring businesses to let them inside has stirred concern of
>>>> lawsuits. The dispute doesn't distract from their cuteness, though.



>>>> The case, as well as the regulation, has drawn concern from at least
>>>> one lawmaker on Capitol Hill, as well as the National Restaurant
>>>> Association.

>>>> "I like horses. My daughter likes horses. But even in the Wild West,
>>>> they put them outside," said Angelo Amador, vice president of the
>>>> restaurant association.

>>>> The organization has a few gripes. First, many business owners just
>>>> don't know about the rule, and are only familiar with dogs being a
>>>> traditional service animal. Amador said those that do know have
>>>> concerns the animals aren't housebroken.

>>>> "You cannot train a horse ... housebreak them like you would do with
>>>> a dog,"
>>>> he said.

>>>> The owner could claim the horse is housebroken, but if that turns out
>>>> not to be the case then the business has a sanitation problem on its
>>>> hands -- rather, its floor.

>>>> "After the deed is done, you have a number of other issues in the
>>>> restaurant," Amador said. "It's kind of like damned if you do, and
>>>> damned if you don't."

>>>> Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, cast the rule as a case of Washington
>>>> overreach
>>>> -- hardly one to resist a pun, he accused the Justice Department of
>>>> "making more hay" for trial attorneys.

>>>> "Do we really need to saddle businesses with more regulation? I say,
>>>> 'Naaayyy.' Every scenario in life does not need a rule or
>>>> regulation," he said in a statement to FoxNews.com.

>>>> The regulations on service animals were first put out in September
>>>> 2010, as part of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

>>>> The rules, which went into effect later, actually narrowed down what
>>>> used to be a broad definition for service animals. For most purposes,
>>>> the Justice Department decided to recognize only dogs -- but the
>>>> department added an exception for miniature horses after being
>>>> "persuaded" regarding their benefits to the disabled.

>>>> The guidelines noted that the horses can be "viable alternatives" for
>>>> people who are allergic to dogs or whose religious beliefs do not
>>>> allow them to be around dogs.

>>>> "Another consideration mentioned in favor of the use of miniature
>>>> horses is the longer life span," the guidelines said. They can
>>>> provide "service" to the disabled for more than 25 years, as opposed
>>>> to roughly seven working years for the typical dog. Plus the horses,
>>>> despite their petite size, can be stronger.

>>>> That was the case for Jose Estrada, the plaintiff in the case filed
>>>> this month in Los Angeles court.

>>>> His attorney, Morse Mehrban, told FoxNews.com that a dog "doesn't
>>>> have the sufficient strength to pull him in his wheelchair."

>>>> So Estrada, a paraplegic, uses a 29-inch-high miniature horse named
>>>> Princess. According to the complaint, the two retail stores being
>>>> sued "refused to permit said animal" inside along with Estrada last
>> month.
>>>> The
>>>> suit says Princess "is housebroken" and would not "compromise" the
>>>> safety of those two stores.

>>>> "Apparently, they don't understand that a miniature horse can be a
>>>> service animal," Mehrban said.

>>>> Estrada is suing for "no less than" $4,000 in damages.

>>>> The federal rules state that businesses should allow in the horses as
>>>> long as they're trained, considering such factors as the size of the
>>>> horse, whether it's under control, whether it's "housebroken," and
>>>> whether its presence would compromise "legitimate safety
>>>> requirements."

>>>> Amador says the horses cannot be housebroken.

>>>> The Guide Horse Foundation, though, says on its website that the
>>>> horses "learn exactly the same behaviors as a guide dog," and that
>>>> they "never bite or kick except when attacked."

>>>> The organization could not be reached for comment.

>>>> The use of miniature horses as service animals, though, has created a
>>>> bit of a rift in the miniature horse community.

>>>> The American Miniature Horse Association does not condone the use of
>>>> miniature horses for that purpose. Association President Harry Elder
>>>> applauded those who have received "ADA certification" to train
>>>> animals but questioned the use of miniature horses.

>>>> "Although the American Miniature Horse is bred to be intelligent,
>>>> curious, gentle, sensible, willing to cooperate and easy to train, it
>>>> remains in all respects physically and instinctively a true horse.
>>>> The American Miniature Horse can be readily trained to be lead or
>>>> driven but, in most cases, it would not make a suitable replacement
>>>> for an animal such as a guide dog," he said in a statement.

>>>> According to the group, there are 200,000 miniature horses registered
>>>> with the organization around the world, though it's unclear how many
>>>> are used as service animals in the U.S.

>>>> Other retail groups are taking the Justice Department rule in stride
>>>> and say they're trying to follow it. Mallory Duncan, senior vice
>>>> president with the National Retail Federation, said the group is
>>>> continuing to hold talks on "how best to comply."

>>>> "Retailers are sensitive to the many challenges confronting our
>>>> customers and work to reasonably accommodate all shoppers when and
>>>> where appropriate,"
>>>> Duncan said. "Retailers must remain cognizant of the unique
>>>> challenges service animals present in the retail setting in order to
>>>> best protect and serve the general public."




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