[nagdu] Slightly OT was Re: howling was RE: Amazing dogs?

Fri Apr 27 02:56:43 UTC 2012

There is a movie about sled dogs in which someone who does not usually work 
with dogs is having a really hard time getting the lead dog to behave. 
Everyone keeps telling him "Bite his ear." Finally, near the end of the 
movie, the person ends up doing it. The other person who is with him cannot 
believe that he actually did it. When the first person says that that is 
what everyone says to do, the response of the second person is, "I never met 
anyone crazy enough to do it."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?

> Hannah,
>
> The version of the muzzle hold I use on Mitzi is to place my hands 
> straight along the sides of her muzzle from behind. If she's being super 
> stubborn about not being quiet on command, I will cup my fingers around 
> her mouth to hold it gently closed, unless she is really determined, then 
> I will tighten the hold enough to prevent her opening her mouth. I will 
> ask her to be quiet while acknowledging that she is telling me about 
> something, which seems to let her know she has done her job. Unless she is 
> just having a bark fit because she feels like it. She doesn't do that in 
> the harness, but every now and then she decides she must stand in the back 
> yard and bark just to be barking. Or have a nice howl. /lol/
>
> With that muzzle hold, she pulls away, but she does not like such 
> treatment, so I have her attention. I will generally use my calm, firm 
> voice to repeat quiet... Or shut up you stupid mutt! /lol/ She's more 
> likely to be this obstinate out in the yard, really. If we're on a walk on 
> leash or if she is working, then I can just direct her forward and be 
> insistent. She was being that way a couple of days ago, just walking 
> around, but then she gave it up and just prances at the things she was 
> barking at the day before. So I praised her for that and laughed, which is 
> good reward for her.
>
> I don't know if I've ever tried growling with her... Or the looking in the 
> face with my Alpha B look... Just seems to make her more obstinate, doing 
> it that way. So I looked for other approaches...
>
> When she decided to try barking in public places, I could cheerfully have 
> killed her. But correction didn't work, the muzzle hold didn't work... 
> Well, I tried a stronger correction than usual, which made the behavior 
> more hardened, so then I had more of a problem. Sigh.
>
> If she was really, really excited, what I started doing was the calming 
> body hold, a la the Dog Whisperer. I would hold her leash in one hand and 
> drop the harness handle and bend over her with my arm along her side and 
> my hand over her foreleg, lightly, enough to contain and limit the 
> bouncing and prancing. I discovered I could feel her heart rate that way, 
> going at hummingbird speed. With her contained by my one arm I would then 
> put my other arm across her chest so my hand was curled around her neck, 
> preventing forward leaping and also allowing me to feel her tension. Then 
> i could talk to her and kind of adjust how I was dealing with her while 
> noting when her heart rate slowed... Then, figuring she could listen to 
> sense, I would work some obedience with her or address whatever caused all 
> that excitement to teach her to remain calm when it was going on.
>
> So for barking in harness, I finally was able to simply draw her head away 
> from the distraction and spend less time on the calming hold. I would also 
> run my hand along her throat until the barking muscles relaxed. Then 
> reward her with high-value treats. Or smelly treats, as I call them. 
> /smile/ I was then able to start to use the smelly treats to gain her 
> attention and draw her stubborn nose away from the distraction. And so on.
>
> It took a lot of patience and consistency, but now if she is startled by 
> something and wants to vocalize, she pretty much settles herself. But I 
> still always praise and give a food reward if it's convenient. Just to 
> reinforce that good behavior! /smile/ If she is having a squirly day, then 
> I will do calming stuff and redirection more than correction. The 
> correction is most likely still to just set off her obstinate streak. 
> Calming and exerting my authority in other ways gets better results, so 
> that's how we roll. Also, I talk to her while I'm calming and redirecting, 
> since she likes a good chat. I feel fairly silly at times, but whatever 
> works. /grin/
>
> Oh, with a pup that is a different kind of obstinate, if very sweet, I 
> have growled at her, and it has worked. Once, when I had my hands full of 
> squirmy little brick and couldn't do that mama pinch on the back of the 
> neck, I actually bit her. Hadn't planned to, so I was as surprised as she 
> was, but she did settle down. I have not bitten her again. /lol/ I do 
> growl at times with the neck pinch or nose pinch to simulate that form of 
> dog discipline. That would never work with Mitzi poodle, but the puppy got 
> the message. Call me Big Momma! /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 04/23/2012 01:02 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
>> Lisa,
>> I've done that a few times but there's a small part of me that's afraid
>> she'd bight. While I know she absolutely won't, I have a difficult time
>> bringing myself to do it because I was bitten when I was younger and 
>> there's
>> still the fear in me. However, this technique sometimes does work but 
>> other
>> times she just pulls away.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Lisa belville
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:33 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>>
>> wow, I didn't get that part.  Maybe leaning over and getting right in
>> Princess's face while using a hand to clamp shut that long poodly muzzle 
>> and
>> growling quiet would be a good idea, too.  My last dog was a mumbler, so 
>> I'd
>> have to do this when he was getting too vocal for the situation.
>>
>> I'd have to know, too, does she do the howling in harness, out of 
>> harness,
>> or all three?  Definitely, I wouldn't want it going on in harness, but it
>> would be easier to manage if she did it while not working.
>>
>>
>> 1st Law of Procrastination: that which can be done will be done . . .
>> TOMORROW!!
>> Lisa Belville
>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marsha Drenth"<marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:20 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>>
>>
>>> Hannah,
>>>
>>> I think I read your below message right. Your saying that when your pup
>>> sees
>>> a squirrel, she howls? Have you tried to say "quiet". Not sure if that 
>>> is
>>> a
>>> command they teach at Pilot. I haven't had a pup that howls. But I am 
>>> sure
>>> there is someone on here that could help you resolve that issue.
>>>
>>> What do you guys think?
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Hannah Chadwick
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:54 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>>
>>> Tracy,
>>> I just feel like I come up with one thing or another every week. It
>>> horrible! Lol.
>>> I'm sure I can compromise, and live with a lot of things, but there are
>>> things I just can't stand like howling and not responding because of a
>>> squirrel.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:48 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>>
>>> So Hannah, you think the rest of us all have amazing dogs?  That's nice!
>>> It seems to me I'm always poor-mouthing my Benny boy.  He has some 
>>> amazing
>>> qualities, but he has his faults, too.  And some of them are 2 sides of
>>> the
>>> same coin.  For example, I love his cocky self-confidence.  I'm sure it
>>> helps him cope with the big bad city.  But it also makes him hard to
>>> correct, since he's so sure he's right in whatever he wants to do.
>>>
>>> Every dog has faults, to some degree or other.  And every person has to
>>> decide, with every dog, these things:
>>> Is this fault so serious that I'm unsafe?  Can this fault be fixed, and,
>>> if
>>> so, how?  If it can't be fixed, can I live with it?
>>> And the ones I can live with, if I must, may not be the same ones you 
>>> can
>>> live with, and vice versa.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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