[nagdu] My Apologies!
Michael Hingson
info at michaelhingson.com
Thu Aug 9 20:14:13 UTC 2012
Marsha,
Are you sure he is not losing it? Let's see if he remembers to respond to
this thread.
He has been confused about using the term "all y'all" in a sentence.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marsha Drenth
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] My Apologies!
Ah! So this is what happens to Marion as he gets older and older. LOL I just
kidding. Marion your not old, nor losing it because of your age.
*runs and hides*
Marsha drenthSent from my iPhone
On Aug 9, 2012, at 3:20 PM, "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
wrote:
> Ah Marion,
>
> Is this what happens just after a birthday? (grin)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:10 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] My Apologies!
>
> My message did not come out the way I meant it to read! What a
> difference a word makes! I meant to write, "I have never met an
> owner-trained dog that was *not* as well controlled as a program dog!"
> The way I originally wrote this message was cumbersome, so i editted
> it and really screwed up the meaning. In these days of political
> attack ads, I sure hope my words don't get disseminated far and wide,
> giving the impression I look upon owner-traners poorly. Those who
> really know my view on this issue will attest to the fact that I am
> fully supportive of owner-trainers! Sorry 'bout that, Chief!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pawpower Creations" <pawpower at cox.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>
>
>> Marion, I have never met a program trained dog that was as well
>> trained and well controlled as either mine or Rox'E'S owner trained
>> dogs. In fact most of the owner trainers that we know have had
>> awesomely well behaved dogs and I would stack them up against any
>> program trained dog any day of the week.
>>
>> That is not to say that program trained dogs are not well controlled
>> or well trained, it is just that I haven't met any, or I should say I
>> have met very few which I could call well controlled. I just don't
>> think it is fair to lump all owner trained dogs in to a group simply
>> because the experiences you have had with them have been less than
>> stellar.
>> JMHO
>>
>> Woofs and wags from the pawpower pack,
>>
>> Queen Bristol, Mill'E to the max, Rudy the dude in spirit, baby girl
>> Laveau and Bayou Baylee.
>>
>> Pawpower Creations, Products designed with you and your canine in mind.
>> Bob Blackner/Rox'e Homstad,
>> 504-312-2609
>> pawpower at cox.net
>> www.pawpowercreations.com
>>
>> And be sure and visit bayou Baylee's blog at:
>> www.pawpowercreations.com/wordpress
>> See you there.
>>
>>
>> I asked for strength that I might rear her perfectly; I was given
>> weakness that I might feed her more treats.
>>
>> I asked for good health that I might rest easy; I was given a
>> "special needs" dog that I might know nurturing.
>>
>> I asked for an obedient dog that I might feel proud; I was given
>> stubbornness that I might feel humble.
>>
>> I asked for compliance that I might feel masterful; I was given a
>> clown that I might laugh.
>>
>> I asked for a companion that I might not feel lonely; I was given a
>> best friend that I would feel loved.
>>
>> I got nothing I asked for,
>> But everything that I needed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Author unknown
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 6:28 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>
>> Vanessa,
>> I'm not sure if I agree with your message completely. I have never
>> met an owner-trained guide dog that was as well controlled as a program
dog.
>> NAGDU and the National Association of Blind veterans will work with
>> our General Counsel to create a better policy for the VA.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Vanessa Lowery" <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>
>>
>>> OK, that was a history lesson, for sure. Thanks, jenine. This also
>>> tells
>>
>>> me that GdUI's leadership is aware of the same issue.
>>>
>>> But this also speaks to the concerns that we all have about service
>>> dogs, be they program-trained or owner-trained. The issue being
>>> control of the dog. Sounds like some of the owner-trained dogs,
>>> though they may perform tasks, are not under good control, and that
>>> is what brought about this ruling.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
>>> Adult and Community Services Division Adult Services Screening Unit
>>> 410-853-3550
>>> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com> 8/8/2012 3:27 PM >>>
>>> Buddy,
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me try to explain this access issue. We have been dealing with
>>> this at GDF and our service dog organization, America's Vetdogs, for
>>> the past several years.
>>>
>>> The first thing to know about any Veterans Administration facility
>>> is that there is no overall governing structure that covers every
>>> aspect of its operation. Each facility director is allowed, under
>>> federal directive, to establish policies and procedures according to
>>> the needs, within certain parameters of course, of that facility.
>>>
>>> Veterans and staff alike have a saying: "If you've been to one VA
>>> facility, you've been to one VA facility."
>>>
>>> Although the Secretary in DC has given some general guidance, it is
>>> only that and each facility may establish its own rules for access.
>>>
>>> Remember, Veterans Administration facilities are federal and do not
>>> fall under the ADA. They fall under the Rehabilitation Act and even
>>> more specifically, under these guidelines established by the
>>> Secretary of Veterans Affairs.
>>>
>>> As the popularity of service dogs to assist with many disabling
>>> conditions has risen, a number of people have owner trained pets or
>>> acquired dogs not suitable for the work. These people know that
>>> their dogs are covered under the ADA and truly do believe that this
>>> coverage extends to the VA system.
>>> Just as with the general public, when any dog designated as a
>>> service animal does not behave properly, disrupts activities or
>>> poses a danger to people, it can be removed from the facility. This
>>> is true with the VA as well, but as with the general public, the VA
>>> has chosen to use a wide ranging punishment for a very specific
>>> issue. We receive calls at least once a week from VA facilities
>>> asking how to ban dogs who attack staff and other service dogs.
>>> According to the VA staff calling, most of these dogs are owner or
>>> privately trained. Some, however, as we point out, are indeed
>>> trained by accredited facilities. We advise the VA staff to first
>>> work with the individual to alert him/her that the dog's behavior is
>>> not appropriate and if it continues with no attempt to correct it,
>>> the dog can be banned from the facility. We also refer them to their
>>> facility's policy on service animal access, which may or may not
>>> state this.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, many veterans are also using service dogs as
>>> protection devices for personal safety which is not at all a
>>> function of the work service dogs are generally expected to do and
>>> is not allowed under the ADA or other access laws.
>>>
>>> In order to establish some kind of order in who is bringing dogs
>>> into VA facilities, many facilities have decided to adopt the
>>> standard that any service animal entering the facility must have
>>> been trained by an organization with either Assistance Dogs
>>> International (ADI) or International Guide Dog Federation (IGDF)
>>> credentials. Handlers who cannot show ID with the logos of either of
>>> these organizations and an associated training provider will not be
>>> allowed to take their service or guide dogs into the VA facility.
>>>
>>> You're probably thinking that people can just get these logos on
>>> line and make up ID cards. They could but ADI and IGDF are extremely
>>> strict about who and where their logos may be used and will seek
>>> whatever legal remedies appropriate when they discover misuse of
>>> their logos. If you have a guide dog school ID and your school is
>>> accredited by IGDF, chances are it bares that logo.
>>>
>>> This VA access standard generally has not touched the guide dog
>>> handlers much in the past but increasingly, the rule is being
>>> enforced more strictly so that guide dogs, once held separately by
>>> the VA in general in terms of access and provision of benefits, are
>>> now being included in a general service animal category and more
>>> closely scrutinized.
>>>
>>> This is truly one of those pendulum swings in access rights that
>>> happens when things get too out of control for an entity. We saw
>>> this in the July
>>> 2010 revision of the ADA's service animal definition and standards.
>>> The VA is following that general line with these regulations.
>>>
>>> I will not go into whether I think this is right or wrong as that is
>>> a whole other topic, but just to let you know, it is out there and
>>> it does affect many people seeking services from the VA.
>>>
>>> There are efforts in Congress already to change this guidance but
>>> some of those efforts are based on incorrect information and
assumptions.
>>>
>>> What can NAGDU do about this situation? One thing you can do that
>>> would be very helpful for those of us in organizations that work
>>> directly with the VA for our handlers is to ask your handlers who
>>> are using VA facilities, either as veterans or dependants, whether
>>> or not their access with their dogs has been questioned, challenged
>>> or denied within the past year. If so, please let me know privately.
>>>
>>> As I said, each VA facility is its own entity regarding how strictly
>>> the guidelines for service animals are enforced. Some facilities
>>> allow pets and therapy animals without question while others are
>>> extremely strict about showing ID for the service animal each time
>>> the person comes to the facility. It all depends on the experiences
>>> and attitude of the facility director and staff.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:07 PM
>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>>
>>> Someone just brought the following to my attention. What does this
>>> mean for owner/trained guide and service dogs? Moreover, what does
>>> this mean for the future of what constitutes a service dog?
>>>
>>> From
>>>
>>
> http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h1627_enr.xml#toc-H547AD04B80A24
> ADCBB0
>>> 2C96CBF22D067
>>>
>>> SEC. 109. USE OF SERVICE DOGS ON PROPERTY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
>>> VETERANS AFFAIRS.
>>> Section 901 is amended by adding at the end the following new
subsection:
>>>
>>>
>>> "(f)(1) The Secretary may not prohibit the use of a covered service
>>> dog in any facility or on any property of the Department or in any
>>> facility or on any property that receives funding from the
>>> Secretary.
>>>
>>> "(2) For purposes of this subsection, a covered service dog is a
>>> service dog that has been trained by an entity that is accredited by
>>> an appropriate accrediting body that evaluates and accredits
>>> organizations which train guide or service dogs.".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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