[nagdu] Working a dog beyond where others think it should have been retired; was Why so hard?

rhonda cruz rhondaprincess at gmail.com
Thu Aug 30 18:00:10 UTC 2012 

   can our dogs let us know when it is time for not being able to work.


 
On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Cindy Ray wrote:

> Well, it is possible that no one got mad at Morris Frank for working the dog to death (she had cancer) but heck, maybe the animal rights thing wasn't as big then. I don't think people get so mad at us, do they, as they have a sense of concern for our safety. That was what folks who thought I should retire Spencer thought.
> 
> CL
> 
> On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Ann Edie wrote:
> 
>> Hi, All,
>> 
>> Since we're talking about working dogs beyond the point where those outside
>> of the team think it is obvious that the dog should be retired, I just
>> wanted to remind folks of something I heard a while ago--that is, that good
>> old Morris Frank was seen carrying his Buddy up the steps onto an airplane
>> because the dog could no longer navigate steps independently.  This may have
>> been the first time a guide dog was allowed to ride in the cabin of an
>> airplane with its handler, so it was probably quite an historic event.  But
>> I don't think anyone got mad at Morris Frank for working the dog to death.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Ann
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:13 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>> 
>> Lynn
>> Could be lots of things.
>> She could have gotten the dog at a time in her life when life was great.
>> Then things went downhill and she just for her own reasons couldn't separate
>> the dog's health from the past.
>> Maybe she was worried she couldn't or wouldn't be able to get another dog.
>> Maybe she was worried about the time away needed to get another dog.
>> Could be anything.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:01 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>> 
>> This person was an employee at a blind center and i didn't have much
>> interaction with her.  I think people were mad at her because she worked her
>> dog for so long and it had trouble getting up the bus steps.  It looked
>> pathetic and it looked like a person working the dog to death.  I think
>> people had tried to talk to her about it before they got mad at her.
>> 
>> Curious but not critical: what could be the issue if it wasn't the dog?  To
>> me, the issue seemed to be one of the lady not wanting to stop working the
>> dog.  The people who were mad at her were people who believed that our dogs
>> deserve a decent retirement as they get old.  Kind of the same thing when
>> someone will let a sick pet suffer even after it is clear that the kindest
>> thing would be to euthanize it - they just can't let go.
>> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynn,
>>> In the case of your friend working the very old dog, I can assure you 
>>> the dog wasn't the issue. There were other things she was holding 
>>> onto, the dog was just a symbol.
>>> Why was everybody pissed at her? Would have been far kinder to have 
>>> reached out and treated her with kindness then with anger.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:51 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>> 
>>> Hey Marsha, the pain is great right now but it will pass.  Just know 
>>> that YOU did the right thing for Emma by letting her retire.
>>> 
>>> I have seen people who can't let go and they worked their dog even 
>>> while it was real old -age 14 - and it literally crawled up the bus 
>>> steps because the dog's arthitis was so bad.  Many of us were pissed 
>>> off at the person for putting that dog through all that just because 
>>> she couldn't let go and let the dog retire.  I don't negate the fact 
>>> that it is very hard to retire dogs that worked so many years for us 
>>> and we loved and were loved back.
>>> Because
>>> the dogs can't choose to retire, we have to know when it is time to do 
>>> it and then LET them do it.  We show our love for them by doing the 
>>> right thing by them.
>>> 
>>> I have had 8 dogs and so far, retired 7.  Some were old and some were 
>>> younger and some didn't work out for various reasons and needed very 
>>> early retirement.  It never gets any easier every time we must break 
>>> our bonds with our dogs.  I was able only to place two of them with 
>>> people I know and are local.  They went on to enjoy their remaining 
>>> time with someone they already knew and liked alot.  One is gone now 
>>> but the other, Jacob, is still around at age 14 and enjoying life with 
>>> the family and their other dog.
>>> 
>>> I'm glad that TSE has someone like Michelle Drolet to help with grief 
>>> about retirements or deaths of dogs.  Sometimes people need time to 
>>> process things before they are ready for a new dog.  This is very 
>>> important to do.  A friend of mine got a new dog before she was ready 
>>> and her unresolved grief caused her to not bond properly with the new 
>>> dog and it affected the working relationship and bonding with the new 
>>> dog.
>>> 
>>> There's no right or wrong way to do the retirement but each person is 
>>> different in their response to losing or retireing a dog.  Do what 
>>> feels best for you - you'll know when it is time to move on and bond 
>>> with a new dog.
>>> 
>>> Peace to you and take care of yourself.
>>> 
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 9:38 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi Marcia,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sorry this is coming so late.
>>>> 
>>>> You know, I retired Brooks last Easter because he just stopped 
>>>> working and he let me know that by not guiding me around obstacles 
>>>> anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> It was the hardest thing I've ever done too.  But the reaction from 
>>>> the school that it was my choice to retire him hurt me even more than 
>>>> his retirement itself.
>>>> 
>>>> I too, had to let him go to a new family, because I didn't know how 
>>>> fast I would be getting a new dog from the school I applied for.
>>>> 
>>>> It really messed me up for a while, and I wasn't sure if getting 
>>>> another dog was the thing I should do.  But after talking to the 
>>>> school I applied for, I learned things about Brooks and his quirks 
>>>> that he never should've been given out as a guide.
>>>> 
>>>> That doesn't mean I love him any less.  It doesn't mean the heartache 
>>>> still isn't there.  It does mean that I know, for a fact, that I did 
>>>> everything I could do to make it work, and for me, it was doomed from 
>>>> the beginning.
>>>> 
>>>> I miss him terribly, and wish I could see him.  But I think it would 
>>>> be confusing to him for him to see me again.
>>>> 
>>>> He's already had to go through the change of a new family, and my 
>>>> popping up again in his life, I think would confuse him, or make him 
>>>> feel like I'm abandoning him again when I don't take him home.
>>>> 
>>>> there are so many emotions that go along with retiring a dog.  I feel 
>>>> what you are feeling in my own way.  I'll never say I feel the same, 
>>>> cause no one feels the same emotions.
>>>> 
>>>> Just know that whatever you feel, feel free to vent it on this list.
>>>> 
>>>> I know, I sound like a moderator right? *smile*.  Which is funny 
>>>> talking to the moderator herself, but we all love you, and I hope i 
>>>> don't offend anyone by speaking for everyone here.
>>>> 
>>>> We'll be here for you no matter what you need to say, or anything 
>>>> else you need.
>>>> 
>>>> Just let us know.
>>>> 
>>>> You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
>>>> 
>>>> Be blessed in your grief, and know that Heavenly Father knows how you 
>>>> feel, and that his Son Jesus Christ has felt your pain too through 
>>>> the atonement.
>>>> 
>>>> blessings,
>>>> 
>>>> Jenny
>>>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Juanita Herrera wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha,
>>>>> I know that there are no words that anyone can say to relieve your 
>>>>> pain of retiring Emma. Especially someone like me. What do I know. I 
>>>>> have never experienced the retirement of a guide dog before, but the 
>>>>> simple thought of losing Anise makes me shutter. I would probably be 
>>>>> feeling the same way you are now. I know you will never forget Emma 
>>>>> and that she'll always hold a special place in your heart. I'm sure 
>>>>> your new pup will be special in its own way. I wish you the best of 
>>>>> luck in class.
>>>>> Juanita and Anise and Baby Benson
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/22/12, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Although I have been writing that Emma is retired, or semi-retired 
>>>>>> for weeks. And although she hasn't been able to work in a good 
>>>>>> while. Its official now. She is officially retired. I just continue 
>>>>>> to say that over and over in myhead, and its not real. *sigh* Why 
>>>>>> is retiring a guide so hard? I have cried over this so much, and 
>>>>>> then I think to myself how can I be so attached to this puppy. I 
>>>>>> feel stupid for crying. But how can one retire a pup without. I 
>>>>>> know its for the best, for her health, for me, for our stress 
>>>>>> level. She has not been happy working in several months, and I hate 
>>>>>> to see her tense because of it. currently she is here with me, and 
>>>>>> hasn't gone to her retirement home. But to think I'll never leave 
>>>>>> this house, with her in harness, with her next to me, her 
>>>>>> protecting me, watching out for me, guiding me. It just makes my 
>>>>>> heart hurt. This beautiful German Shepard, who has lived in three 
>>>>>> different states with me, who has traveled on three different 
>>>>>> college campuses, traveled to numerous cities and places, was in my 
>>>>>> life at the hardest and the happiness times of my life. She has 
>>>>>> always been there. My Emma girl, my emmalena. My emma girl who will 
>>>>>> let babies crawl all over her and not bat an eye lash, who will 
>>>>>> run, play and jump with my older kids. The girl who has saved my 
>>>>>> life on numerous occasions, and probably more times that I didn't 
>>>>>> know about. It just hurts so very very much. Its like you know 
>>>>>> something in your heart, but your mind hasn't kept up with that 
>>>>>> thought, and vice versa. Every time I have a birthday I will 
>>>>>> remember my Emma and the day that we met. It was my present, best 
>>>>>> one ever. A part of my grief is that I feel like I failed her. Yes 
>>>>>> she got sick. Which changed her in so many ways. But couldn't I do 
>>>>>> more, I could have done this or that. Why did I wait so long to to 
>>>>>> take her to the vet with her EPI. She was a perfect dog for me. 
>>>>>> This girl had so much energy, so much spunk, she fit me to the T. 
>>>>>> She absolutely loved working, and now she doesn't. I want that 
>>>>>> happy, go lucky, spunky girl back!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The why is it so hard question, wasn't one really I needed an 
>>>>>> answer to.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> over the years on this list I have seen lots of pups being retired 
>>>>>> and their handlers go through the same thing I am now. Yes I have a 
>>>>>> class date for another pup, but up until then, my mind and heart 
>>>>>> are going to be with Emma.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry for the rambling.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha drenthSent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
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