[nagdu] Working a dog beyond where others think it should have been retired; was Why so hard?

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Thu Aug 30 18:11:36 UTC 2012 

I think often our dogs do let us know, but sometimes we aren't "listening." I did that; this is why the dog finally took matters into his own hands and quit working in the airport in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
CL

On Aug 30, 2012, at 1:00 PM, rhonda cruz wrote:

>   can our dogs let us know when it is time for not being able to work.
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Cindy Ray wrote:
> 
>> Well, it is possible that no one got mad at Morris Frank for working the dog to death (she had cancer) but heck, maybe the animal rights thing wasn't as big then. I don't think people get so mad at us, do they, as they have a sense of concern for our safety. That was what folks who thought I should retire Spencer thought.
>> 
>> CL
>> 
>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Ann Edie wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, All,
>>> 
>>> Since we're talking about working dogs beyond the point where those outside
>>> of the team think it is obvious that the dog should be retired, I just
>>> wanted to remind folks of something I heard a while ago--that is, that good
>>> old Morris Frank was seen carrying his Buddy up the steps onto an airplane
>>> because the dog could no longer navigate steps independently.  This may have
>>> been the first time a guide dog was allowed to ride in the cabin of an
>>> airplane with its handler, so it was probably quite an historic event.  But
>>> I don't think anyone got mad at Morris Frank for working the dog to death.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Ann
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:13 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>> 
>>> Lynn
>>> Could be lots of things.
>>> She could have gotten the dog at a time in her life when life was great.
>>> Then things went downhill and she just for her own reasons couldn't separate
>>> the dog's health from the past.
>>> Maybe she was worried she couldn't or wouldn't be able to get another dog.
>>> Maybe she was worried about the time away needed to get another dog.
>>> Could be anything.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:01 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>> 
>>> This person was an employee at a blind center and i didn't have much
>>> interaction with her.  I think people were mad at her because she worked her
>>> dog for so long and it had trouble getting up the bus steps.  It looked
>>> pathetic and it looked like a person working the dog to death.  I think
>>> people had tried to talk to her about it before they got mad at her.
>>> 
>>> Curious but not critical: what could be the issue if it wasn't the dog?  To
>>> me, the issue seemed to be one of the lady not wanting to stop working the
>>> dog.  The people who were mad at her were people who believed that our dogs
>>> deserve a decent retirement as they get old.  Kind of the same thing when
>>> someone will let a sick pet suffer even after it is clear that the kindest
>>> thing would be to euthanize it - they just can't let go.
>>> 
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Lynn,
>>>> In the case of your friend working the very old dog, I can assure you 
>>>> the dog wasn't the issue. There were other things she was holding 
>>>> onto, the dog was just a symbol.
>>>> Why was everybody pissed at her? Would have been far kinder to have 
>>>> reached out and treated her with kindness then with anger.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:51 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>>> 
>>>> Hey Marsha, the pain is great right now but it will pass.  Just know 
>>>> that YOU did the right thing for Emma by letting her retire.
>>>> 
>>>> I have seen people who can't let go and they worked their dog even 
>>>> while it was real old -age 14 - and it literally crawled up the bus 
>>>> steps because the dog's arthitis was so bad.  Many of us were pissed 
>>>> off at the person for putting that dog through all that just because 
>>>> she couldn't let go and let the dog retire.  I don't negate the fact 
>>>> that it is very hard to retire dogs that worked so many years for us 
>>>> and we loved and were loved back.
>>>> Because
>>>> the dogs can't choose to retire, we have to know when it is time to do 
>>>> it and then LET them do it.  We show our love for them by doing the 
>>>> right thing by them.
>>>> 
>>>> I have had 8 dogs and so far, retired 7.  Some were old and some were 
>>>> younger and some didn't work out for various reasons and needed very 
>>>> early retirement.  It never gets any easier every time we must break 
>>>> our bonds with our dogs.  I was able only to place two of them with 
>>>> people I know and are local.  They went on to enjoy their remaining 
>>>> time with someone they already knew and liked alot.  One is gone now 
>>>> but the other, Jacob, is still around at age 14 and enjoying life with 
>>>> the family and their other dog.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm glad that TSE has someone like Michelle Drolet to help with grief 
>>>> about retirements or deaths of dogs.  Sometimes people need time to 
>>>> process things before they are ready for a new dog.  This is very 
>>>> important to do.  A friend of mine got a new dog before she was ready 
>>>> and her unresolved grief caused her to not bond properly with the new 
>>>> dog and it affected the working relationship and bonding with the new 
>>>> dog.
>>>> 
>>>> There's no right or wrong way to do the retirement but each person is 
>>>> different in their response to losing or retireing a dog.  Do what 
>>>> feels best for you - you'll know when it is time to move on and bond 
>>>> with a new dog.
>>>> 
>>>> Peace to you and take care of yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 9:38 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marcia,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm sorry this is coming so late.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know, I retired Brooks last Easter because he just stopped 
>>>>> working and he let me know that by not guiding me around obstacles 
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was the hardest thing I've ever done too.  But the reaction from 
>>>>> the school that it was my choice to retire him hurt me even more than 
>>>>> his retirement itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too, had to let him go to a new family, because I didn't know how 
>>>>> fast I would be getting a new dog from the school I applied for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It really messed me up for a while, and I wasn't sure if getting 
>>>>> another dog was the thing I should do.  But after talking to the 
>>>>> school I applied for, I learned things about Brooks and his quirks 
>>>>> that he never should've been given out as a guide.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That doesn't mean I love him any less.  It doesn't mean the heartache 
>>>>> still isn't there.  It does mean that I know, for a fact, that I did 
>>>>> everything I could do to make it work, and for me, it was doomed from 
>>>>> the beginning.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I miss him terribly, and wish I could see him.  But I think it would 
>>>>> be confusing to him for him to see me again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> He's already had to go through the change of a new family, and my 
>>>>> popping up again in his life, I think would confuse him, or make him 
>>>>> feel like I'm abandoning him again when I don't take him home.
>>>>> 
>>>>> there are so many emotions that go along with retiring a dog.  I feel 
>>>>> what you are feeling in my own way.  I'll never say I feel the same, 
>>>>> cause no one feels the same emotions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just know that whatever you feel, feel free to vent it on this list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know, I sound like a moderator right? *smile*.  Which is funny 
>>>>> talking to the moderator herself, but we all love you, and I hope i 
>>>>> don't offend anyone by speaking for everyone here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We'll be here for you no matter what you need to say, or anything 
>>>>> else you need.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just let us know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Be blessed in your grief, and know that Heavenly Father knows how you 
>>>>> feel, and that his Son Jesus Christ has felt your pain too through 
>>>>> the atonement.
>>>>> 
>>>>> blessings,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jenny
>>>>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Juanita Herrera wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha,
>>>>>> I know that there are no words that anyone can say to relieve your 
>>>>>> pain of retiring Emma. Especially someone like me. What do I know. I 
>>>>>> have never experienced the retirement of a guide dog before, but the 
>>>>>> simple thought of losing Anise makes me shutter. I would probably be 
>>>>>> feeling the same way you are now. I know you will never forget Emma 
>>>>>> and that she'll always hold a special place in your heart. I'm sure 
>>>>>> your new pup will be special in its own way. I wish you the best of 
>>>>>> luck in class.
>>>>>> Juanita and Anise and Baby Benson
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/22/12, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Although I have been writing that Emma is retired, or semi-retired 
>>>>>>> for weeks. And although she hasn't been able to work in a good 
>>>>>>> while. Its official now. She is officially retired. I just continue 
>>>>>>> to say that over and over in myhead, and its not real. *sigh* Why 
>>>>>>> is retiring a guide so hard? I have cried over this so much, and 
>>>>>>> then I think to myself how can I be so attached to this puppy. I 
>>>>>>> feel stupid for crying. But how can one retire a pup without. I 
>>>>>>> know its for the best, for her health, for me, for our stress 
>>>>>>> level. She has not been happy working in several months, and I hate 
>>>>>>> to see her tense because of it. currently she is here with me, and 
>>>>>>> hasn't gone to her retirement home. But to think I'll never leave 
>>>>>>> this house, with her in harness, with her next to me, her 
>>>>>>> protecting me, watching out for me, guiding me. It just makes my 
>>>>>>> heart hurt. This beautiful German Shepard, who has lived in three 
>>>>>>> different states with me, who has traveled on three different 
>>>>>>> college campuses, traveled to numerous cities and places, was in my 
>>>>>>> life at the hardest and the happiness times of my life. She has 
>>>>>>> always been there. My Emma girl, my emmalena. My emma girl who will 
>>>>>>> let babies crawl all over her and not bat an eye lash, who will 
>>>>>>> run, play and jump with my older kids. The girl who has saved my 
>>>>>>> life on numerous occasions, and probably more times that I didn't 
>>>>>>> know about. It just hurts so very very much. Its like you know 
>>>>>>> something in your heart, but your mind hasn't kept up with that 
>>>>>>> thought, and vice versa. Every time I have a birthday I will 
>>>>>>> remember my Emma and the day that we met. It was my present, best 
>>>>>>> one ever. A part of my grief is that I feel like I failed her. Yes 
>>>>>>> she got sick. Which changed her in so many ways. But couldn't I do 
>>>>>>> more, I could have done this or that. Why did I wait so long to to 
>>>>>>> take her to the vet with her EPI. She was a perfect dog for me. 
>>>>>>> This girl had so much energy, so much spunk, she fit me to the T. 
>>>>>>> She absolutely loved working, and now she doesn't. I want that 
>>>>>>> happy, go lucky, spunky girl back!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The why is it so hard question, wasn't one really I needed an 
>>>>>>> answer to.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> over the years on this list I have seen lots of pups being retired 
>>>>>>> and their handlers go through the same thing I am now. Yes I have a 
>>>>>>> class date for another pup, but up until then, my mind and heart 
>>>>>>> are going to be with Emma.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry for the rambling.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marsha drenthSent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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