[nagdu] could have, would have, should have

[Lyn Gwizdak]

DAniel,
That TRAINER should have had the choke collar on and given a huge leash 
correction for not listening to yhou and your very valid concerns while on 
class! LOL!

I wonder at times as to what thought processes are going through some 
trainers's heads when they match a dog to someone.  Your description of the 
dog and what happened even while at school was so obvious that it was a poor 
match to begin with.

A friend of mine, a very petite woman, was matched with this huge Lab who 
was very energetic.  The dog had dog distraction problems and he also was 
attacked.  He began to lunge at other dogs and he sucessfully pulled away 
from this woman on many occassions.  I saw this in action one time and I had 
to grab her dog's leash as he was pulling away from her to go after a 
barking dog that was with a homeless guy.  I pulled up on the leash until 
the dog stopped lunging and handed him back to her.  I did this when she 
yelled, Lyn, help me!"  Having some vision, I was able to assess the 
situation and help my friend out.  My friend did struggle with this dog for 
about 6 years and the dog finally had to be retired due to health issues. 
The dog was a really nice dog but a poor match for my friend.  He was more 
of a guy's kind of dog.  After that dog, my friend applied for a dog at 
another school and she was matched perfectly with a little, petite Lab and 
they are a great match for each other.  The trainer at her new school was 
right on with this.

You may want to make sure that the school you attend will listen to your 
concerns.  Your school failed YOU and there's no excuse for that at all.

Regards,

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DJS" <falcoisking at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] could have, would have, should have


> Hi Bibi,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful words. You are so right when you say when you 
> say
> that other people that do not have a service animal can even begin to
> understand the loss. I had a pet for 11 years before I got Scout. His name
> was Falco. I raised him from a pup of 5 weeks. He knew me better than I 
> knew
> myself. It was when I had him that I lost my sight. He was about 3 years
> old. We had gone through training because I knew he would be a handful if 
> I
> did not as he weighed 125 pounds. He was the most perfect dog. He heeled
> right next to me. He stopped at every curb. When we went to the dog park 
> by
> my house, he never left my side unless I said it was ok, and then he came
> back every few minutes to check on me. He never let anyone get too close 
> to
> me unless he knew it was ok. We would walk every morning and afternoon and
> evening with my white cane.
> I told him if I ever got another dog it would be a guide dog, so he could 
> go
> with me everywhere that Falco could not.
> When I went to Michigan to get Scout, I knew something was wrong. I knew
> nothing about guide dogs, but I knew dogs. When I went out on the course
> just to heel Scout, I was exhausted. He was way too fast, and I kept 
> telling
> the trainers this. "Keep working on this", "back up when he goes too 
> fast",
> "make him sit until he calms down" - I did all of these things, and it was
> like he ignored me.
> When we did a training in Detroit, we were on a train, and my trainer had 
> us
> enter the train and told me to have the dog sit. Scout proceeded to lay 
> down
> in a sprawl. Her response was "at least he is down, so that's ok" - 
> REALLY?
> On another trip in a small town, we made an excursion over railroad 
> tracks,
> past some vacant lots, and some sidewalk dining. The first thing Scout did
> was to take me off of the sidewalk into a vacant lot and on to dirt path 
> to
> sniff around  through the trail. The trainer rescued me, we continued. I
> walked toward the dining tables, and he walked me right into a parked car. 
> I
> expressed how dissatisfied I was and all they said was it would take a lot
> of work for to be a team. I told them I did better with a pet.
> By the time I left I was furious.
> I know I should have been more vocal, but they kept saying it would just
> take work.
> When I got home, to Denver, it was even worse. I would walk down the 
> street
> and he would not even pay attention to me. I could not even get his
> attention with food.
> I asked for help from a trainer, but they could not even have one 
> available
> for at least 5 months.
> In the meantime - I was guided into my pond, broke my tooth, sprained my
> ankle, and so much more. I just kept remembering it takes at least a year. 
> I
> believed that crap, and wasn't going to give up.
> At home Scout was a perfect pup, and so full of love, who would put his 
> huge
> head on my foot and sleep. He was my shadow, licked my tears when I cried.
> And so it went on for 3 and a half years. I really thought about keeping 
> as
> a pet, but I could even walk him on a leash. He was just too much dog.
> The school has not even contacted me to see if I am ok. All they wanted is
> to get the dog back. Maybe they thought I would cause trouble because of 
> my
> accident and it would look bad for one of their dogs. They have provided 
> no
> type of support for grief counseling, no kind words, or nothing.
> My thanks go out to people like you and people on this list for being my
> comfort and support. I certainly appreciate it.
> I will probably get another guide dog someday, but Scout restricted my
> freedom in so many ways, I need to work on mobility again, and I am so
> behind on adaptive technology, I have to try to find out where to go from
> here.
> I am glad to know you are here in Denver, maybe we can meet for coffee or
> lunch sometime.
>
> Thanks so much for letting me rant.
>
> Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Criminal Justice Major
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 8:55 PM
> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] could have, would have, should have
>
> hi, Daniel,
> This is Bibi and retired Pilot Dogs guide dog son Odie from Denver,
> Colorado.
> Feel free to send me an email off list anytime at:
> orleans24 at comcast.net
> Please don't beat yourself over it and don't take it hard on yourself
> either.
> I've had a mismatch which I tried to work with the dog for seven months.
> Yes, I experienced the same devastation too, but it was much rougher 
> during
> training when I got Odie.
> I had to retire Freedom David Berry the same day I ended up getting Odie
> Harley Davidson five and a half hours later.
> I'll admit that the director of training at Pilot wasn't too positive and 
> he
>
> was very negative where he just wanted me to give up on Freedom and send 
> him
>
> back.
> The rest of the staff at Pilot didn't see it his way.
> They encouraged me to try different techniques and I also went as far as 
> to
> enroll him into obedience training classes at Petsmart, more because he 
> was
> very skittish of noises.
> The executive director of Pilot Dogs told me he was taking full
> responsibility for what had happened upon stating that Freedom should have
> never been allowed to be a guide dog in the first place because of the 
> type
> of environment he was raised in.
> Freedom was raised in a PBB (Puppy Behind Bars) program in a female 
> setting
> prison.
> He wasn't fond of men and he'd growl at them if felt threatened which
> majority of the time, it wasn't necessary.
> My father began to suspect that Freedom had been beaten by a man, causing
> the dog to be intimidated.
> Freedom David Berry took to very few men and sadly, it stayed that way.
> Once I ended up with Odie, things slowly began to look up, despite that I
> still had painful feelings of letting Freedom go.
> When I did talk with the executive director during the last week of 
> training
>
> at Pilot, I told him that I felt like I was a total failure that I failed
> Freedom David Berry completely.
> He reassured me I wasn't a failure and explained the only reason why he 
> had
> me come back to retrain with another guide dog was that I didn't give up 
> and
>
> continued to keep trying regardless of how stressful it was.
> Confession time. I almost wanted to pack up my belongs and leave without
> another guide dog, more because Odie decided to be a big brat during
> training and he definitely gave me a run for my money.
> I look back now and it was really worth it.
> I would definitely encourage you to get another guide dog, but allow
> yourself to have some grieving time.
> Take your time grieving for how long you need to.
> you may also want to look into other guide dog schools as there are many
> others to choose from and what will fit your needs.
> Guide dog users aren't the only ones who go through that agonizing feeling
> too as I've seen others with different types of service dogs experience
> mismatches or where the dog simply just just doesn't want to be a working
> dog.
> My friend Amanda Dreher experienced it with her first hearing dog, Buddy.
> She said that although he was a smart dog and International Hearing Dogs 
> did
>
> admit to putting out a dog who should have not been put out as a service
> dog, she tried everything and didn't give up.
> She's on her second hearing dog, a Wheaton/caron terior mix who has been 
> her
>
> ears for three years and the match has worked out well for the two of 
> them.
> Although words don't really help anyone heal from a painful experience as
> this one, we're all here for you and remember that good things do come out
> of a negative impact.
> Bibi, husband Dale and Odie
> medical alert service dog
> the happy spirited bounty labra wolf
>
>
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