[nagdu] Consumer or Beneficiary?

Natalie nrorrell at qwest.net
Mon Jan 16 03:51:23 UTC 2012 

Hi Marion,
Point taken.  Thanks.
Best,
Nat and Liam Joshua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer or Beneficiary?


> Nat,
>    Let me say that, under the law, a dog is property, albeit living 
> property. In dealing with legal issues concerning our guide dogs, the law 
> will view our dogs as property in protecting our rights to them. As it 
> pertains to the services of the guide dog training program, we are the 
> consumers of those services. As another subscriber so eloquently stated, 
> in spite of the fact that there is a distance between the funding of the 
> service, the provider of the service, and the consumer of the service, the 
> guide dog training program would be best to understand our role as 
> consumer and the power that role inherently provides.
>    I am working on a Braille Monitor article that will go into more detail 
> about this and my dinner is ready, so more on this paradigm shift will 
> come later!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Natalie" <nrorrell at qwest.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer or Beneficiary?
>
>
>> Hi Tracy,
>> I agree with your perception of "guide dog consumer."  I feel that kind 
>> of language denotes a hierarchy that leaves the dog as little more than a 
>> consumable commodity.
>> Best,
>> Nat and Liam Joshua
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 9:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer or Beneficiary?
>>
>>
>>>I kind of have a problem with being called a guide dog consumer.  Doesn't
>>> that sound disgusting?  It's not the ideas expressed that bug me; it's 
>>> the
>>> language.  But then, I have a problem with being considered a consumer
>>> rather than a citizen, in a broader social context.
>>> I'd say I'm a guide dog client, customer, or handler.  I'd never call
>>> myself a guide dog consumer. I love my dogs; I would never consume them.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>>     I agree that most training programs have very paternalistic 
>>>> approaches
>>>> and policies as it pertains to their relationships with consumers. Many
>>>> programs view the blind people with whom they work as beneficiaries and
>>>> seem
>>>> to tell them they should be grateful for what they get from them. This
>>>> sometimes not too subtle message is accepted by the blind person who 
>>>> feels
>>>> indebted to what has been given them. Adding to this attitude is the 
>>>> fact
>>>> that most programs do not charge a fee for their services.
>>>>     The reality, however, is that we are consumers. Guide dog training
>>>> programs solicit funding from the public and from private foundations 
>>>> with
>>>> the expressed purpose of providing these services to the blind. These
>>>> donors
>>>> support the work of the training program and those who work for the
>>>> training
>>>> programs are paid to provide these services. The Chief Executive 
>>>> Officers
>>>> of
>>>> guide dog training programs are paid 6-figure salaries to run these
>>>> nonprofit organizations whose sole purpose is to provide guide dogs to
>>>> blind
>>>> people. As the recipient of these guide dogs, we are the consumers of
>>>> these
>>>> services, no less powerful than the consumers of the goods and services 
>>>> of
>>>> any other for-profit corporation. Just as is true with any other 
>>>> company,
>>>> blind consumers can shape the way a guide dog training program does
>>>> business
>>>> through our voices.
>>>>     A few training programs transfer ownership to the consumer upon
>>>> completion of training; most do not. Some of those who do not condition
>>>> their custody of the dog upon specific requirements, such as providing
>>>> annual vetrinarian reports, and reserve the right to repossess the dog. 
>>>> To
>>>> the best of my knowledge, none of those programs that retain ownership
>>>> and/or the right to repossess the dog have any policies concerning due
>>>> process. The failure to adopt due process policies can result in
>>>> repossession without cause.
>>>>     Lest anyone believe a program would not do such a thing, please 
>>>> read
>>>> the
>>>> article in the April Braille Monitor about a Fidelco consumer who had 
>>>> this
>>>> very thing happen. This story is only one of many about Fidelco 
>>>> consumers
>>>> who have been treated this way and Fidelco is not the only program that
>>>> engages in this sort of behavior. I know of consumers who have been
>>>> threatened with and actually had their dogs repossessed because of
>>>> anonymous
>>>> complaints of abuse, neglect, or out of control dogs with absolutely no
>>>> objective evidence of such issues. One program that has changed their
>>>> policy
>>>> from ownership to custody once repossessed the harnesses of a couple in
>>>> Florida who obtained their dogs prior to the change in policy based 
>>>> upon
>>>> the
>>>> allegations of an administrator with the Division of Blind Services who
>>>> asserted that the couple had been banned from the Orientation & 
>>>> Adjustment
>>>> Center because of their dogs' behavior. In a conversation with the
>>>> program's
>>>> Director of training, I was told that, if they did not have ownership, 
>>>> the
>>>> dogs would have been repossessed. When I contacted the Director of the 
>>>> O&A
>>>> center to inquire why the couple was barred, the Director didn't have a
>>>> clue
>>>> what I was talking about. He told me the couple had not been barred and
>>>> they
>>>> had no issues with the couple's dogs. The administrator who filed the
>>>> complaint was demoted. Due process policies would have prevented this
>>>> unjust
>>>> action.
>>>>     I am currently working on another such issue with a consumer from 
>>>> the
>>>> same program. Anonymous complaints have been filed that the consumer is
>>>> neglecting his dog. The vetrinarian has asserted the dog is healthy and
>>>> there is no evidence of abuse or neglect. In spite of this, the program 
>>>> is
>>>> attempting to remove the dog and has no due process for the consumer.
>>>>     The membership of NAGDU has endorsed a guide Dog Consumers' Bill of
>>>> Rights to protect us from those who would attempt to deny us our basic
>>>> rights without due process. I encourage each of you to read the Bill of
>>>> Rights and ask the training program from which you received your dog to
>>>> abide by it. You can read this Bill of Rights by going to
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm11/bm1106/bm110609.htm
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Doug Parisian" <eggmann at shaw.ca>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Victim or Advocate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Lyn, I used to allow my dog the run of the place when I ran a business
>>>>> for
>>>>> 13 years.  All my dogs new to either return to my office, or go to the
>>>>> receptionist's station when folks came in.  There were only two of us 
>>>>> in
>>>>> the office and all my dogs knew the chain of command--the pecking 
>>>>> order,
>>>>> me, receptionist, and dog though the latter were reversible.  Most
>>>>> customers, if they learned I had a dog guide, would ask to see him/her
>>>>> and
>>>>> as long as all behaviours were unobtrusive, I would allow it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug: Just another happy tail!
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Victim or Advocate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Executive Director of our blind center lets her dog wander around
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> it even almost went outside alone!  I was tempted to take the dog and
>>>>>> put
>>>>>> him in a room downstairs and wait for the ED to go nuts looking for 
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> dog! Hahaha!  Meanie me!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I keep Landon in harness and with me or tied to the table if I'm
>>>>>> wandering around doing stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Sheila Leigland" <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:30 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Victim or Advocate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug actually i think you are right on this one. I know of someone
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> would take a guide dog and let it walk around because oh It likes to
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> everyone but I was told by an employee of a buisness that the dog 
>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>> off out of the door and she had to go catch the dog. They wondered 
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> didn't let my dog wander and I told them it was improper behavior 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> not to accept improper behavior like that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sheila Leiglan d
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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