[nagdu] Advice Requested
Mark J. Cadigan
kramc11 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 21 20:55:34 UTC 2012
I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking him
to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording the
meeting.
What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the school's
servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if you ask me.
Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however he only emails me
at my school email.
I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not have an
opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along. , although I'd be curious
> to see how this person acted in your presence if there were also sighted
> witnesses. Plus you're not being there could be misinterpreted as you not
> wanting to solve the problem.
>
> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are offering
> advice from experience rather than speculation. I understand why you
> don't want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails and
> conversations in this situation isn't adversarial, it's you protecting
> yourself. They might interpret it as you being defensive or
> confrontational, but a lawyer would see otherwise. Keeping things off the
> record might work at first, but it sounds like this person isn't
> interested in sticking to the law, this is why I say document, document,
> document.
>
> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the problem
> out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation of the law
> the easier it will be to go over their head. It could be that their
> superior has no clue anything is going on.
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>
> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>
> Lisa Belville
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to do
>>with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>
>>
>>
>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know
>> that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>
>>
>>
>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he attempts
>> to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my recourse.
>> What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself against it.
>> I am talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I have no fears
>> that he would try anything other than administrative punishment.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Hmm, Interesting. so the ODS director not only polices the college's
>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college?
>>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to
>>> actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks
>>> seems a bit below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things
>>> have happened.
>>>
>>> ? And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>
>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to
>>> photograph the area. When the director is pointing out these spots, do
>>> you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or do you
>>> go out there alone with this person
>>>
>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and there.
>>> Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when they pick
>>> up, assuming they pick up. Plus those using dogs for work like bracing
>>> or door opening may not be in a position to physically pick up after
>>> their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an
>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically. The more I
>>> read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this
>>> person has with you.
>>>
>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social
>>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities? It might be
>>> worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're being
>>> singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this behavior
>>> is way over the top, IMO.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>
>>> Lisa Belville
>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, and
>>>> counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people
>>>>> from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that it
>>>>> is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in your
>>>>> dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot worse than
>>>>> it really is--the ODS people may be being told that there are massive
>>>>> chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the occasional mustard
>>>>> blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know about your dog's
>>>>> relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't interested in the slightest
>>>>> that I even have a dog, let alone when and where it poops. This
>>>>> situation is astonishing to me because of that. When I stroll into
>>>>> ODS, I get nothing but the occasional compliment about my "pretty
>>>>> shepherd" and then it's on to business. Has somebody from ODS been out
>>>>> there to check the specific spot? You should demand that they clean it
>>>>> up since their expertise about dog care knows no bounds. You should
>>>>> also inform them that you are a grown human being who managed to pass
>>>>> through a college admission screening process and that their attitude
>>>>> is disgusting, condescending, and appropriate toward a nine-year-old,
>>>>> not a competent individual such as yourself who strives to one day
>>>>> soon have a degree in hand. Ask them if they also want to monitor your
>>>>> pooping behavior and ensure that you are flushing after each #2 you
>>>>> make. Ask them also if they plan on eating a four course meal from the
>>>>> pavement in question, because if so, then there is a lot more that
>>>>> needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them that if they are
>>>>> going to treat you like a child, then you want them to also go after
>>>>> the drunks that puke on the pavement; those who urinate on the
>>>>> pavement; those who throw trash or food on the pavement; those who
>>>>> spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they care where your dog
>>>>> goes when you are at home because your home is just as off-campus as
>>>>> the place you take your dog when you are at school. Finally, demand of
>>>>> this person to see their supervisor, to whom you will say the same
>>>>> things until somebody decides to get off their power trip and treat
>>>>> you like you're the college student that you are, not their wayward
>>>>> naughty child.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust,
>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all
>>>>> that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. However,
>>>>> I assure you that if it were me, that would be the overall impression
>>>>> I would try to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy policy about
>>>>> dog dung or not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter how close to
>>>>> campus it is--off campus is off campus. Period. It would be the
>>>>> equivalent of them saying "Clean up more carefully after your dog when
>>>>> you're at your mother's house. Otherwise, there will be consequences
>>>>> for you." Anyway, I hope you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to
>>>>> inform them of their deplorable attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you can
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live with
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your first
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the school
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not
>>>>>> safe
>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my dog's
>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a
>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley
>>>>>> that if
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the
>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still griping
>>>>>> at me
>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I
>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however, I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another
>>>>>> student in
>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my
>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student takes
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am unable
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by
>>>>>> either the
>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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