[nagdu] Advice Requested

Nicole B. Torcolini at Home ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Jan 21 22:12:59 UTC 2012 

Can you forward it to your gmail account and then delete it from the school 
server?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested


>I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking him 
>to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording the 
>meeting.
>
>
>
> What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the 
> school's servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if you 
> ask me. Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however he only 
> emails me at my school email.
>
>
>
> I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not have 
> an opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along.  , although I'd be curious 
>> to see how this person acted in your presence if there were also sighted 
>> witnesses.  Plus you're not being there could be misinterpreted as you 
>> not wanting to solve the problem.
>>
>> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are 
>> offering advice from experience rather than speculation.  I understand 
>> why you don't want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails and 
>> conversations in this situation isn't adversarial, it's you protecting 
>> yourself.  They might interpret it as you being defensive or 
>> confrontational, but a lawyer would see otherwise.  Keeping things off 
>> the record might work at first, but it sounds like this person isn't 
>> interested in sticking to the law, this is why I say document, document, 
>> document.
>>
>> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the 
>> problem out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation of 
>> the law the easier it will be to go over their head.  It could be that 
>> their superior has no clue anything is going on.
>>
>> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>>
>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>
>> Lisa Belville
>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to do 
>>>with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know 
>>> that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he attempts 
>>> to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my recourse. 
>>> What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself against 
>>> it. I am talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I have no 
>>> fears that he would try anything other than administrative punishment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hmm, Interesting.  so the ODS director not only polices the college's 
>>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college? 
>>>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to 
>>>> actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks 
>>>> seems a bit below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things 
>>>> have happened.
>>>>
>>>> ?  And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to 
>>>> photograph the area.  When the director is pointing out these spots, do 
>>>> you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or do 
>>>> you go out there alone with this person
>>>>
>>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and there. 
>>>> Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when they pick 
>>>> up, assuming they pick up.  Plus those using dogs for work like bracing 
>>>> or door opening may not be in a position to physically pick up after 
>>>> their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an 
>>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically.  The more 
>>>> I read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this 
>>>> person has with you.
>>>>
>>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social 
>>>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities?  It might be 
>>>> worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're being 
>>>> singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this behavior 
>>>> is way over the top, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>
>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, 
>>>>> and counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people 
>>>>>> from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that it 
>>>>>> is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in your 
>>>>>> dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot worse 
>>>>>> than it really is--the ODS people may be being told that there are 
>>>>>> massive chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the occasional 
>>>>>> mustard blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know about your 
>>>>>> dog's relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't interested in the 
>>>>>> slightest that I even have a dog, let alone when and where it poops. 
>>>>>> This situation is astonishing to me because of that. When I stroll 
>>>>>> into ODS, I get nothing but the occasional compliment about my 
>>>>>> "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to business. Has somebody from ODS 
>>>>>> been out there to check the specific spot? You should demand that 
>>>>>> they clean it up since their expertise about dog care knows no 
>>>>>> bounds. You should also inform them that you are a grown human being 
>>>>>> who managed to pass through a college admission screening process and 
>>>>>> that their attitude is disgusting, condescending, and appropriate 
>>>>>> toward a nine-year-old, not a competent individual such as yourself 
>>>>>> who strives to one day soon have a degree in hand. Ask them if they 
>>>>>> also want to monitor your pooping behavior and ensure that you are 
>>>>>> flushing after each #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan on eating 
>>>>>> a four course meal from the pavement in question, because if so, then 
>>>>>> there is a lot more that needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. 
>>>>>> Tell them that if they are going to treat you like a child, then you 
>>>>>> want them to also go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; 
>>>>>> those who urinate on the pavement; those who throw trash or food on 
>>>>>> the pavement; those who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if 
>>>>>> they care where your dog goes when you are at home because your home 
>>>>>> is just as off-campus as the place you take your dog when you are at 
>>>>>> school. Finally, demand of this person to see their supervisor, to 
>>>>>> whom you will say the same things until somebody decides to get off 
>>>>>> their power trip and treat you like you're the college student that 
>>>>>> you are, not their wayward naughty child.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust, 
>>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all 
>>>>>> that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. 
>>>>>> However, I assure you that if it were me, that would be the overall 
>>>>>> impression I would try to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy 
>>>>>> policy about dog dung or not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter 
>>>>>> how close to campus it is--off campus is off campus. Period. It would 
>>>>>> be the equivalent of them saying "Clean up more carefully after your 
>>>>>> dog when you're at your mother's house. Otherwise, there will be 
>>>>>> consequences for you." Anyway, I hope you get that resolved. Don't 
>>>>>> hesitate to inform them of their deplorable attitude and patronizing 
>>>>>> policies.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you 
>>>>>>> can say
>>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and 
>>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your 
>>>>>>> first dog
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am 
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the 
>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not 
>>>>>>> safe
>>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit, 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my 
>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a 
>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley 
>>>>>>> that if
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the 
>>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still griping 
>>>>>>> at me
>>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I 
>>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however, I 
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another 
>>>>>>> student in
>>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my 
>>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student takes 
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am unable 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by 
>>>>>>> either the
>>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a 
>>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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