[nagdu] Advice Requested

[Tami Kinney]

Hm... Sounds like a strategy to me. Or a reasonable first opening 
move... Keep us posted. Sounds like someone is playing with a stacked 
deck there... Or is it not with a full deck? /evil grin/

On 01/21/2012 12:55 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
> I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking
> him to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording
> the meeting.
>
>
>
> What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the
> school's servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if
> you ask me. Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however he
> only emails me at my school email.
>
>
>
> I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not
> have an opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa belville"
> <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along. , although I'd be
>> curious to see how this person acted in your presence if there were
>> also sighted witnesses. Plus you're not being there could be
>> misinterpreted as you not wanting to solve the problem.
>>
>> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are
>> offering advice from experience rather than speculation. I understand
>> why you don't want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails
>> and conversations in this situation isn't adversarial, it's you
>> protecting yourself. They might interpret it as you being defensive or
>> confrontational, but a lawyer would see otherwise. Keeping things off
>> the record might work at first, but it sounds like this person isn't
>> interested in sticking to the law, this is why I say document,
>> document, document.
>>
>> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the
>> problem out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation
>> of the law the easier it will be to go over their head. It could be
>> that their superior has no clue anything is going on.
>>
>> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>>
>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>
>> Lisa Belville
>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things
>>> to do with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to
>>> know that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he
>>> attempts to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my
>>> recourse. What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend
>>> myself against it. I am talking in the legal and school rules realms
>>> hear, I have no fears that he would try anything other than
>>> administrative punishment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa belville"
>>> <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hmm, Interesting. so the ODS director not only polices the college's
>>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the
>>>> college? What then does this presumably educated person do when it
>>>> comes to actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie
>>>> skid marks seems a bit below someone with an advanced degree, but
>>>> stranger things have happened.
>>>>
>>>> ? And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person
>>>> to photograph the area. When the director is pointing out these
>>>> spots, do you have someone there who can confirm or deny the
>>>> allegations or do you go out there alone with this person
>>>>
>>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and
>>>> there. Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when
>>>> they pick up, assuming they pick up. Plus those using dogs for work
>>>> like bracing or door opening may not be in a position to physically
>>>> pick up after their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an
>>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically. The
>>>> more I read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined
>>>> that this person has with you.
>>>>
>>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of
>>>> social networking aspect specific to those with disabilities? It
>>>> might be worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not
>>>> you're being singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you
>>>> out, this behavior is way over the top, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>
>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan"
>>>> <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection,
>>>>> and counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hooper"
>>>>> <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people
>>>>>> from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that
>>>>>> it is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in
>>>>>> your dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot
>>>>>> worse than it really is--the ODS people may be being told that
>>>>>> there are massive chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the
>>>>>> occasional mustard blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know
>>>>>> about your dog's relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't
>>>>>> interested in the slightest that I even have a dog, let alone when
>>>>>> and where it poops. This situation is astonishing to me because of
>>>>>> that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but the occasional
>>>>>> compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to
>>>>>> business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to check the
>>>>>> specific spot? You should demand that they clean it up since their
>>>>>> expertise about dog care knows no bounds. You should also inform
>>>>>> them that you are a grown human being who managed to pass through
>>>>>> a college admission screening process and that their attitude is
>>>>>> disgusting, condescending, and appropriate toward a nine-year-old,
>>>>>> not a competent individual such as yourself who strives to one day
>>>>>> soon have a degree in hand. Ask them if they also want to monitor
>>>>>> your pooping behavior and ensure that you are flushing after each
>>>>>> #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan on eating a four course
>>>>>> meal from the pavement in question, because if so, then there is a
>>>>>> lot more that needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them
>>>>>> that if they are going to treat you like a child, then you want
>>>>>> them to also go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; those
>>>>>> who urinate on the pavement; those who throw trash or food on the
>>>>>> pavement; those who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if
>>>>>> they care where your dog goes when you are at home because your
>>>>>> home is just as off-campus as the place you take your dog when you
>>>>>> are at school. Finally, demand of this person to see their
>>>>>> supervisor, to whom you will say the same things until somebody
>>>>>> decides to get off their power trip and treat you like you're the
>>>>>> college student that you are, not their wayward naughty child.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust,
>>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all
>>>>>> that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first.
>>>>>> However, I assure you that if it were me, that would be the
>>>>>> overall impression I would try to leave with them. Whether they
>>>>>> have a fancy policy about dog dung or not, it can't apply
>>>>>> off-campus--no matter how close to campus it is--off campus is off
>>>>>> campus. Period. It would be the equivalent of them saying "Clean
>>>>>> up more carefully after your dog when you're at your mother's
>>>>>> house. Otherwise, there will be consequences for you." Anyway, I
>>>>>> hope you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to inform them of their
>>>>>> deplorable attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Weiner"
>>>>>> <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you
>>>>>>> can say
>>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your
>>>>>>> first dog
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I
>>>>>>> am using
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the
>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is
>>>>>>> not safe
>>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well
>>>>>>> lit, and
>>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my
>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in
>>>>>>> a sort of
>>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley
>>>>>>> that if
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the
>>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still
>>>>>>> griping at me
>>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I
>>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The
>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus,
>>>>>>> however, I am
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another
>>>>>>> student in
>>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my
>>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student
>>>>>>> takes her
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am
>>>>>>> unable to
>>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by
>>>>>>> either the
>>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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