[nagdu] Email Forwarding was Re: Advice Requested
Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Jan 21 23:30:01 UTC 2012
Ah, okay. I figured that there had to be a catch somewhere. They always find
a way to make things work against us...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Email Forwarding was Re: Advice Requested
> It automatically forwards, then archives for its records. My concern is
> it's not going mysteriously missing if it is required.
>
>
>
> You know, like Enron and the file shredders.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:28 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Email Forwarding was Re: Advice Requested
>
>
>> Most email servers allow you to forward to another address and then there
>> is an option as to whether the server keeps a copy or deletes it. Even if
>> the server does not delete it, you could delete it by hand. If your
>> server will not forward, you can forward yourself; the forwarded email
>> still contains all headers and other important information from the
>> original message. Also, when a server forwards to another address, it
>> still shows as being sent to the original address.
>> I am not saying that you have to use this method.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> The forwarding part yes, the deleting part no. I forward it anyway, I
>>> just don't know if a forwarded email has any legal bearing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Part of why my school emails are automatically forwarded is so I know
>>> that I will have a copy no madder what happens.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You know how computer systems can conveniently crash and whatnot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can you forward it to your gmail account and then delete it from the
>>>> school server?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:55 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking
>>>>>him to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording
>>>>>the meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the
>>>>> school's servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if
>>>>> you ask me. Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however
>>>>> he only emails me at my school email.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not
>>>>> have an opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along. , although I'd be
>>>>>> curious to see how this person acted in your presence if there were
>>>>>> also sighted witnesses. Plus you're not being there could be
>>>>>> misinterpreted as you not wanting to solve the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are
>>>>>> offering advice from experience rather than speculation. I
>>>>>> understand why you don't want to be seen as adversarial, but
>>>>>> documenting Emails and conversations in this situation isn't
>>>>>> adversarial, it's you protecting yourself. They might interpret it
>>>>>> as you being defensive or confrontational, but a lawyer would see
>>>>>> otherwise. Keeping things off the record might work at first, but it
>>>>>> sounds like this person isn't interested in sticking to the law, this
>>>>>> is why I say document, document, document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the
>>>>>> problem out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation
>>>>>> of the law the easier it will be to go over their head. It could be
>>>>>> that their superior has no clue anything is going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things
>>>>>>>to do with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to
>>>>>>> know that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he
>>>>>>> attempts to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is
>>>>>>> my recourse. What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend
>>>>>>> myself against it. I am talking in the legal and school rules realms
>>>>>>> hear, I have no fears that he would try anything other than
>>>>>>> administrative punishment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm, Interesting. so the ODS director not only polices the
>>>>>>>> college's property, but property that technically doesn't belong to
>>>>>>>> the college? What then does this presumably educated person do when
>>>>>>>> it comes to actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for
>>>>>>>> doggie skid marks seems a bit below someone with an advanced
>>>>>>>> degree, but stranger things have happened.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ? And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person
>>>>>>>> to photograph the area. When the director is pointing out these
>>>>>>>> spots, do you have someone there who can confirm or deny the
>>>>>>>> allegations or do you go out there alone with this person
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and
>>>>>>>> there. Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when
>>>>>>>> they pick up, assuming they pick up. Plus those using dogs for
>>>>>>>> work like bracing or door opening may not be in a position to
>>>>>>>> physically pick up after their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an
>>>>>>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically. The
>>>>>>>> more I read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined
>>>>>>>> that this person has with you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of
>>>>>>>> social networking aspect specific to those with disabilities? It
>>>>>>>> might be worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not
>>>>>>>> you're being singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you
>>>>>>>> out, this behavior is way over the top, IMO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping
>>>>>>>>> inspection, and counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the
>>>>>>>>> pavement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have
>>>>>>>>>> people from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling
>>>>>>>>>> them that it is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security
>>>>>>>>>> guards in your dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it
>>>>>>>>>> sound a lot worse than it really is--the ODS people may be being
>>>>>>>>>> told that there are massive chunks of doggy dung lying around
>>>>>>>>>> instead of the occasional mustard blot. I just don't see how ODS
>>>>>>>>>> would even know about your dog's relieving behavior. ODS at my
>>>>>>>>>> school isn't interested in the slightest that I even have a dog,
>>>>>>>>>> let alone when and where it poops. This situation is astonishing
>>>>>>>>>> to me because of that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but
>>>>>>>>>> the occasional compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then
>>>>>>>>>> it's on to business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to
>>>>>>>>>> check the specific spot? You should demand that they clean it up
>>>>>>>>>> since their expertise about dog care knows no bounds. You should
>>>>>>>>>> also inform them that you are a grown human being who managed to
>>>>>>>>>> pass through a college admission screening process and that their
>>>>>>>>>> attitude is disgusting, condescending, and appropriate toward a
>>>>>>>>>> nine-year-old, not a competent individual such as yourself who
>>>>>>>>>> strives to one day soon have a degree in hand. Ask them if they
>>>>>>>>>> also want to monitor your pooping behavior and ensure that you
>>>>>>>>>> are flushing after each #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan
>>>>>>>>>> on eating a four course meal from the pavement in question,
>>>>>>>>>> because if so, then there is a lot more that needs done to clean
>>>>>>>>>> it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them that if they are going to treat
>>>>>>>>>> you like a child, then you want them to also go after the drunks
>>>>>>>>>> that puke on the pavement; those who urinate on the pavement;
>>>>>>>>>> those who throw trash or food on the pavement; those who spit
>>>>>>>>>> their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they care where your dog
>>>>>>>>>> goes when you are at home because your home is just as off-campus
>>>>>>>>>> as the place you take your dog when you are at school. Finally,
>>>>>>>>>> demand of this person to see their supervisor, to whom you will
>>>>>>>>>> say the same things until somebody decides to get off their power
>>>>>>>>>> trip and treat you like you're the college student that you are,
>>>>>>>>>> not their wayward naughty child.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust,
>>>>>>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout
>>>>>>>>>> all that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first.
>>>>>>>>>> However, I assure you that if it were me, that would be the
>>>>>>>>>> overall impression I would try to leave with them. Whether they
>>>>>>>>>> have a fancy policy about dog dung or not, it can't apply
>>>>>>>>>> off-campus--no matter how close to campus it is--off campus is
>>>>>>>>>> off campus. Period. It would be the equivalent of them saying
>>>>>>>>>> "Clean up more carefully after your dog when you're at your
>>>>>>>>>> mother's house. Otherwise, there will be consequences for you."
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I hope you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to inform
>>>>>>>>>> them of their deplorable attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>>>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>>>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>>>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>>>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>>>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem
>>>>>>>>>>> you can say
>>>>>>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your
>>>>>>>>>>> first dog
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I
>>>>>>>>>>> am using
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the
>>>>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is
>>>>>>>>>>> not safe
>>>>>>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well
>>>>>>>>>>> lit, and
>>>>>>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my
>>>>>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in
>>>>>>>>>>> a sort of
>>>>>>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the
>>>>>>>>>>> alley that if
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the
>>>>>>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still
>>>>>>>>>>> griping at me
>>>>>>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement
>>>>>>>>>>> I deposit
>>>>>>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The
>>>>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment
>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus,
>>>>>>>>>>> however, I am
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another
>>>>>>>>>>> student in
>>>>>>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than
>>>>>>>>>>> my dog,
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student
>>>>>>>>>>> takes her
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am
>>>>>>>>>>> unable to
>>>>>>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by
>>>>>>>>>>> either the
>>>>>>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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