[nagdu] Advice Requested

Tue Jan 24 22:48:15 UTC 2012

That would be great!  Especially on a really hot day!  Give it to one of 
those fussy folks who are really squeamish about that kind of thing!  Or 
leave it in a restraunt or cab that refuses to serve you!  Oh, excuse me, 
could you hand that to me!  I left it near my plate and didn't have time to 
pick it up!  Well, never mind!  I'll leave it for the tip for making me 
leave!  Actually, I knew a guy who was taking a cab out to the vets office 
and had that item in his coat pocket!  He got there and apparently the 
baggie was moved around in the pocket such that he couldn't find it for 
awhile!  He was about ready to call the cab company and ask them to bring 
the bag back to him.  He had a big crush on the woman who was driving. 
Well, he found it but I couldn't help imagining the conversation, 
explanation and embarrassment involved!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested


> Rebecca,
>
> Well, I have not been a sullen teenager for an awfully long tiem, but when 
> someone else is handing me that bag you refer to...
>
> Oh, by the way, have you actually handed some fool a bag of dog poop? I've 
> always wanted to, but just haven't gotten around to it. I've also heard of 
> throwing the bag before you get it tied up... Tempting, but I've always 
> chickened out. /lol/
>
> There does come a time when you have to look at it from a time management 
> perspective in light of your life's goals and options for recourse... One 
> needs to work, study, eat, sleep, take the dog out to poop... Sometimes, 
> there's not a lot of spare time to fit someone else's illegal crap in.
>
> In theory, I'm with fighting tooth and nail. In reality... Well, let's 
> see, I am currently taking a little over a week out of my own life and 
> studies and work in order to fight tooth and nail against yet another law 
> breaking VRC from our agency. Have had my civil rights violated twice 
> based on a lie about RSA rules, of all things. Yeah, like the RSA would 
> have rules that are contrary to Federal VR law. So now I'm simply 
> reviewing a bunch of stuff that I don't have time to read just so that I 
> can use what will be a third violation of my civil rights in under two 
> weeks to get evidence I can use to deal with it instead of just 
> pointlessly playing the she said she said game.
>
> I really don't have time for this! Things then that I am responsible for 
> are even more hit and miss. My professional development is taking not so 
> much the back seat, but the pile of poopy snow as I drive off and leave it 
> behind. And so on.
>
> I have better things to do with my time than waste it on crap like this! I 
> really do. But since none of the tens or even 100s of people who have been 
> responsible for the mess for 39 years now have bothered to clean up their 
> own mess, just letting it pile up and get stinkier...
>
> The metaphor is running away with me, isn't it? /grin/
>
> Yeah, I know. I sound like a combination of a sulky teenager and a snarly 
> old blind, er, you know. But I'll tel you what. I've earned it. And, when 
> it comes to my time management in light of my life and goals, I do not 
> like having my time wasted with petty, illegal crap from people whose 
> salary comes out of my pocket.
>
> So, if Mark is paying anything at all into his schooling, or if his 
> parents are paying taxes or if he is paying taxes by being a working 
> student... Um... Why join in with a dean of students whose salary comes 
> out of Mark's pockets and his family's pockets, one way or another, to 
> watch him break the law looking for poop in snow on property that has 
> nothing to do with the school?
>
> Some of us have lives to live.
>
> Hm... When the VRC tried to insist that because of that RSA rule nobody 
> else has ever heard of that I come there to her office, guess what I told 
> her. Nope. That is time and expense I don't have to waste. If you're going 
> to insist on a face-to-face meeting because of this RSA rule, then you can 
> come here!
>
> So, taxpayer money will be funding her trip out to my house and her time, 
> but that is her choice. How I spend my time is mine. /grin/
>
> I will remind her that, since I am a taxpayer that time and expense she 
> just wasted to violate my civil rights under federal law is coming out of 
> my pocket. /smile/
>
> Tami
>
> On 01/24/2012 09:59 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>> Mark,
>> I haven't read all of this thread.
>> I wonder though why you don't want to take more of an active role in 
>> clearing this up? You aren't being difficult, you are looking out for 
>> your best interests.
>> The attitude of "I have better things to do with my time"
>> Strikes me as a sullen teenager.
>> I realize that you are upset, I realize this situation is blantantly 
>> unfair, and that is all the more reason to participate.
>> Also, some of your messages are unclear. Is the punishment "Whatever the 
>> accuser wants" or is it "staying in the dorm without due process".
>> It can't be toth.
>> Participate in all meetings, take notes, document, have as many people 
>> who want to advocate for you do just that.
>> You will have way better results then the attitude the below message 
>> conveys.
>>
>> Lastly, know that you can always take a bag of poop and give it to 
>> whoever is acusing you. Trust me, it is awesome to go to someone who is 
>> giving you problems and hand them a bag of shit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:37 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>> I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to do
>> with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>
>>
>>
>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know 
>> that
>> when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>
>>
>>
>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he attempts 
>> to
>> pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my recourse.  What 
>> if
>> anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself against it.  I am
>> talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I have no fears that 
>> he
>> would try anything other than administrative punishment.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lisa belville"<missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Hmm, Interesting.  so the ODS director not only polices the college's
>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college?
>>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to 
>>> actual
>>> work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks seems a 
>>> bit
>>> below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things have 
>>> happened.
>>>
>>> ?  And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>
>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to
>>> photograph the area.  When the director is pointing out these spots, do
>>> you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or do you
>>> go out there alone with this person
>>>
>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and there.
>>> Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when they pick 
>>> up,
>>> assuming they pick up.  Plus those using dogs for work like bracing or
>>> door opening may not be in a position to physically pick up after their
>>> dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an 
>>> issue
>>> with service dogs in general or with you specifically.  The more I read, 
>>> I
>>> have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this person has
>>> with you.
>>>
>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social
>>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities?  It might be 
>>> worth
>>> it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're being 
>>> singled
>>> out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this behavior is way 
>>> over
>>> the top, IMO.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>
>>> Lisa Belville
>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan"<kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, and
>>>> counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robert Hooper"<hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people 
>>>>> from
>>>>> ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that it is 
>>>>> your
>>>>> dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in your dorm 
>>>>> filing
>>>>> complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot worse than it really
>>>>> is--the ODS people may be being told that there are massive chunks of
>>>>> doggy dung lying around instead of the occasional mustard blot. I just
>>>>> don't see how ODS would even know about your dog's relieving behavior.
>>>>> ODS at my school isn't interested in the slightest that I even have a
>>>>> dog, let alone when and where it poops. This situation is astonishing 
>>>>> to
>>>>> me because of that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but the
>>>>> occasional compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to
>>>>> business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to check the specific
>>>>> spot? You should demand that they clean it up since their expertise
>>>>> about dog care knows no bounds. You should also inform them that you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> a grown human being who managed to pass through a college admission
>>>>> screening process and that their attitude is disgusting, 
>>>>> condescending,
>>>>> and appropriate toward a nine-year-old, not a competent individual 
>>>>> such
>>>>> as yourself who strives to one day soon have a degree in hand. Ask 
>>>>> them
>>>>> if they also want to monitor your pooping behavior and ensure that you
>>>>> are flushing after each #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan on
>>>>> eating a four course meal from the pavement in question, because if 
>>>>> so,
>>>>> then there is a lot more that needs done to clean it up than Mr. 
>>>>> Clean.
>>>>> Tell them that if they are going to treat you like a child, then you
>>>>> want them to also go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; those
>>>>> who urinate on the pavement; those who throw trash or food on the
>>>>> pavement; those who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they
>>>>> care where your dog goes when you are at home because your home is 
>>>>> just
>>>>> as off-campus as the place you take your dog when you are at school.
>>>>> Finally, demand of this person to see their supervisor, to whom you 
>>>>> will
>>>>> say the same things until somebody decides to get off their power trip
>>>>> and treat you like you're the college student that you are, not their
>>>>> wayward naughty child.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust, 
>>>>> sicken,
>>>>> and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all that to
>>>>> anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. However, I 
>>>>> assure
>>>>> you that if it were me, that would be the overall impression I would 
>>>>> try
>>>>> to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy policy about dog dung or
>>>>> not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter how close to campus it 
>>>>> is--off
>>>>> campus is off campus. Period. It would be the equivalent of them 
>>>>> saying
>>>>> "Clean up more carefully after your dog when you're at your mother's
>>>>> house. Otherwise, there will be consequences for you." Anyway, I hope
>>>>> you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to inform them of their 
>>>>> deplorable
>>>>> attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner"<dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you can
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live with
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your first
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the school
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not
>>>>>> safe
>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my dog's
>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a 
>>>>>> sort
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the 
>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still griping 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I
>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however, I 
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another 
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my 
>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student takes
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am unable 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by 
>>>>>> either
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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