[nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Lyn Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sun Jul 8 19:59:17 UTC 2012


Yeah, I've seen this.  the disabled and blind are left out all the time 
UNLESS we get some really rabble-rousing disabled and blind folks on 
committees planning stuff.

I see this with our LGBT Pride planning.  Last year, as i walked up to the 
enterence to the festival after the parade, the guy there saw me approach 
working my dog - IN HARNESS - and proceded to tell me that I couldn't bring 
my PET inside!  I was - "Say WHAT?? Haven't you ever seen a guide dog?? what 
planet did you come off of!?"  as I handed him my ticket and walked in. I 
was none too happy and I did get into the festival.  And I saw an awful lot 
of these little yappy things that evedently were supposedly "service dogs". 
Pets weren't supposed to be there.  This year, I met a blind guide dog user 
who is on this year's planning committee and they are doing more to help the 
blind and disabled participants enjoy the festival more fully.  the plans 
look good and time will tell what goes sideways or what actually happens and 
works!  I may join that planning committee next year or at least give my own 
input.

Mike, I seem to see the words, "inclusivity" and "diversity" used 
interchangably and meaning basically the same thing in my involvements in 
political movements, activities, and groups.  there is always room for 
improvement in all of this.

It seems that the disabled have been closeted away for centuries and it may 
take some more centuries to see true inclusiveness of all kinds of human 
beings.  Guess that leaves us all out!

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion


> Well, people with disabilities aren't seen as a group to include as a 
> minority. They aren't seen at all, not even by my church, which as a whole 
> claims they are trying to improve this. They are in some ways, but most of 
> that is because of the work of Presbyterians for Disability Concerns.
> Cindy Lou
>
> On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:
>
>> Not if you are going to classify yourself as "inclusive".
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 01:16 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>
>> Michael, then at which point, and I am assuming that this is an important
>> value/concept, does cultural competency come into play.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Michael Hingson
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:51 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>
>> Margo,
>>
>> I choose "inclusion" to describe a state of being precisely because you 
>> are
>> "inclusive" or not.  If you wish to say you, or an organization is
>> "inclusive", then you are or you are not.  You can't decide you are
>> inclusive if you determine that one class or another is not worth 
>> thinking
>> about.  If you leave out any group of people then you are not truly
>> "inclusive".
>>
>> I just searched Google for a definition of "inclusive" and found this:
>> "Inclusive means something that does not leave any part or group out."
>> There is no middle ground.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Margo and Arrow
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:43 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>
>> Michael, this is precisely why I discourage people from using the term
>> "diversity".  Now I know Julie used it because that's what the training 
>> was
>> called.  I'd like to see "inclusivity training" or some other term using 
>> the
>> word "inclusion" or "inclusive" or some other derivation for this type of
>> training.  Now, having said that, people can forget and exclude a group 
>> from
>> being included because a group is not thought of as important enough or
>> credible enough or worldly enough to be included.
>>
>> I truly believe that we are not included in varous trainings or group
>> situations because it is thought that we wouldn't have jobs, we're being
>> taken care of, we're not out in the world, what do the blind know anyway, 
>> we
>> couldn't live without our doggies, we are to be pitied.  I think to teach
>> inclusion is to not only teach what groups are to be included and that 
>> all
>> people are included and how to include all people, but, respecting
>> others--what does tha mean in the inclusion process?
>>
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>
>>
>>> Margo,
>>>
>>> That is why "Diversity" is such an inappropriate term to use when
>>> discussing bringing all "different" groups together.  Last year I
>>> wrote a speech I often give called "Moving From Diversity to
>>> Inclusion".  If a group or a person is "inclusive" then there is no
>>> room for leaving out anyone or you are using the term incorrectly.
>>>
>>> Last October I conducted a workshop at a group discussing and
>>> promoting "Diversity".  During the morning keynote speech the speaker
>>> did not once mention disabilities as a part of the diverse range of
>>> groups who are left out of society.  So, Margo, you are right in your
>> observation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 09:30 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>
>>> Has anyone noticed that in diversity training or sensitivity training,
>>> the disabled are often excluded or glossed over, including no
>>> education about service animals?
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree with both of you.  Julie, your experience with diversity
>>>> training  is similar to mine.  I'm happy to learn about other
>>>> cultures, but the  whole thing seemed pretty phony.  And I'll take
>>>> respect over  understanding  every time.Just respect me as an adult
>>>> fellow human, and we're good.
>>>> Understanding may follow, but, even if it doesn't, it doesn't matter,
>>>> since, if you respect me, you'll either figure I have the brains to
>>>> work  things out myself, or you'll ask if I need a hand.
>>>> And Buddy, I too don't see it as my mission in life to educate
>>>> everyone I  meet about blindness.  I reckon just getting on with my
>>>> life ought to be  enough. If they harass me, I'll explain the law or
>> whatever, but mainly
>>>>  I have places to go and things to do.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Right on, right on, right on! I'm sure some of my fellow blind folk
>>>>> will take issue with this, but I'm so over educating the public.
>>>>> Look what good it's done for us, your conference coordinator being a
>>>>> shining example.
>>>>> Darn it all, we don't need education. While ignorance is curable,
>>>>> there's plenty of education to be had, should people care to have
>>>>> it, and it doesn't have to come from me. It's time that we quit with
>>>>> this belief that our lot in life is to be the ambassador for every
>>>>> stink in blind person out there and by god just live our lives and
>>>>> do our things. But it's also time that we demand the respect due us
>>>>> as human beings.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:08 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wrote a bit about this a couple of weeks ago, but I've been
>>>>>> thinking more on the topic ...I know scary!  LOL  Anyway I attended
>>>>>> this diversity training seminar last spring.  It was a part of a
>>>>>> larger training event on drug/alcohol prevention and not something
>>>>>> I would have attended separately.  anyway the presenter talked
>>>>>> about education and understanding different cultures and whatnot.
>>>>>> There was a lot of emphasis on what she called cultural competency,
>>>>>> which I took to mean being educated about various cultures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the whole time I'm sitting there listening to this presentation I'm
>>>>>> thinking about the conversation we had about my hotel reservations.
>>>>>> This particular presenter was the coordinator for the conference.
>>>>>> She made the hotel reservations for many of the attendees because
>>>>>> the sponsoring agency was covering the hotel.  It's much easier to
>>>>>> do the paperwork that way.  Anyway she knows I'm blind and that I
>>>>>> have
>> Monty.
>>>>>> she also knows I can walk up and down stairs and whatnot.  Still
>>>>>> she informed the hotel that I needed a first floor room and that
>>>>>> I'd be accompanied by a guide dog.  she also assured the hotel that
>>>>>> I'd be no problem that I was quite independent.  I have no words to
>>>>>> express my feelings about this statement.  Unimpressed is about the
>>>>>> nicest thing I can say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So back to diversity training...she's talking about understanding
>>>>>> and education and how important it is to know all about other
>>>>>> people of various cultures, races, disabilities etc.  Immediately
>>>>>> after this lecture we have a break where no less than three people
>>>>>> come up to me to ask inappropriate questions or to pet Monty
>>>>>> without asking.  Honestly I'm not opposed to answering questions,
>>>>>> but when I'm engaged in a different conversation and you interrupt
>>>>>> to ask how much I can see, well it's just rude.  It was at that
>>>>>> moment that I realized that I don't give a crap about education or
>>>>>> understanding or cultural competency or whatever you want to call
>>>>>> it.  Sure if people understood, I mean really got it, about
>>>>>> blindness that would be grand.  I don't need that though.
>>>>>> What I really, really want is respect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> name
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
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