[nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Fri Jul 13 23:17:46 UTC 2012

Hey Lynn- 
Dr. Mauer's speech should be available on the nfb website shortly. 
Tina 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lyn Gwizdak
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 2:31 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Will Maurer's banquet speech be in the Monitor or where else can I read it?

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion

> Hi Lyn,
>
> You are so right.  Just read Dr. Maurer's banquet speech this year to see
> some great examples of the stereotypes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>
> Yeah, I've seen this.  the disabled and blind are left out all the time
> UNLESS we get some really rabble-rousing disabled and blind folks on
> committees planning stuff.
>
> I see this with our LGBT Pride planning.  Last year, as i walked up to the
> enterence to the festival after the parade, the guy there saw me approach
> working my dog - IN HARNESS - and proceded to tell me that I couldn't 
> bring
> my PET inside!  I was - "Say WHAT?? Haven't you ever seen a guide dog?? 
> what
> planet did you come off of!?"  as I handed him my ticket and walked in. I
> was none too happy and I did get into the festival.  And I saw an awful 
> lot
> of these little yappy things that evedently were supposedly "service 
> dogs".
> Pets weren't supposed to be there.  This year, I met a blind guide dog 
> user
> who is on this year's planning committee and they are doing more to help 
> the
> blind and disabled participants enjoy the festival more fully.  the plans
> look good and time will tell what goes sideways or what actually happens 
> and
> works!  I may join that planning committee next year or at least give my 
> own
> input.
>
> Mike, I seem to see the words, "inclusivity" and "diversity" used
> interchangably and meaning basically the same thing in my involvements in
> political movements, activities, and groups.  there is always room for
> improvement in all of this.
>
> It seems that the disabled have been closeted away for centuries and it 
> may
> take some more centuries to see true inclusiveness of all kinds of human
> beings.  Guess that leaves us all out!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>
>
>> Well, people with disabilities aren't seen as a group to include as a
>> minority. They aren't seen at all, not even by my church, which as a 
>> whole
>
>> claims they are trying to improve this. They are in some ways, but most 
>> of
>
>> that is because of the work of Presbyterians for Disability Concerns.
>> Cindy Lou
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:
>>
>>> Not if you are going to classify yourself as "inclusive".
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 01:16 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>>
>>> Michael, then at which point, and I am assuming that this is an 
>>> important
>>> value/concept, does cultural competency come into play.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Michael Hingson
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:51 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>>
>>> Margo,
>>>
>>> I choose "inclusion" to describe a state of being precisely because you
>>> are
>>> "inclusive" or not.  If you wish to say you, or an organization is
>>> "inclusive", then you are or you are not.  You can't decide you are
>>> inclusive if you determine that one class or another is not worth
>>> thinking
>>> about.  If you leave out any group of people then you are not truly
>>> "inclusive".
>>>
>>> I just searched Google for a definition of "inclusive" and found this:
>>> "Inclusive means something that does not leave any part or group out."
>>> There is no middle ground.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Margo and Arrow
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:43 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>
>>> Michael, this is precisely why I discourage people from using the term
>>> "diversity".  Now I know Julie used it because that's what the training
>>> was
>>> called.  I'd like to see "inclusivity training" or some other term using
>>> the
>>> word "inclusion" or "inclusive" or some other derivation for this type 
>>> of
>>> training.  Now, having said that, people can forget and exclude a group
>>> from
>>> being included because a group is not thought of as important enough or
>>> credible enough or worldly enough to be included.
>>>
>>> I truly believe that we are not included in varous trainings or group
>>> situations because it is thought that we wouldn't have jobs, we're being
>>> taken care of, we're not out in the world, what do the blind know 
>>> anyway,
>
>>> we
>>> couldn't live without our doggies, we are to be pitied.  I think to 
>>> teach
>>> inclusion is to not only teach what groups are to be included and that
>>> all
>>> people are included and how to include all people, but, respecting
>>> others--what does tha mean in the inclusion process?
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>
>>>
>>>> Margo,
>>>>
>>>> That is why "Diversity" is such an inappropriate term to use when
>>>> discussing bringing all "different" groups together.  Last year I
>>>> wrote a speech I often give called "Moving From Diversity to
>>>> Inclusion".  If a group or a person is "inclusive" then there is no
>>>> room for leaving out anyone or you are using the term incorrectly.
>>>>
>>>> Last October I conducted a workshop at a group discussing and
>>>> promoting "Diversity".  During the morning keynote speech the speaker
>>>> did not once mention disabilities as a part of the diverse range of
>>>> groups who are left out of society.  So, Margo, you are right in your
>>> observation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 09:30 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone noticed that in diversity training or sensitivity training,
>>>> the disabled are often excluded or glossed over, including no
>>>> education about service animals?
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with both of you.  Julie, your experience with diversity
>>>>> training  is similar to mine.  I'm happy to learn about other
>>>>> cultures, but the  whole thing seemed pretty phony.  And I'll take
>>>>> respect over  understanding  every time.Just respect me as an adult
>>>>> fellow human, and we're good.
>>>>> Understanding may follow, but, even if it doesn't, it doesn't matter,
>>>>> since, if you respect me, you'll either figure I have the brains to
>>>>> work  things out myself, or you'll ask if I need a hand.
>>>>> And Buddy, I too don't see it as my mission in life to educate
>>>>> everyone I  meet about blindness.  I reckon just getting on with my
>>>>> life ought to be  enough. If they harass me, I'll explain the law or
>>> whatever, but mainly
>>>>>  I have places to go and things to do.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right on, right on, right on! I'm sure some of my fellow blind folk
>>>>>> will take issue with this, but I'm so over educating the public.
>>>>>> Look what good it's done for us, your conference coordinator being a
>>>>>> shining example.
>>>>>> Darn it all, we don't need education. While ignorance is curable,
>>>>>> there's plenty of education to be had, should people care to have
>>>>>> it, and it doesn't have to come from me. It's time that we quit with
>>>>>> this belief that our lot in life is to be the ambassador for every
>>>>>> stink in blind person out there and by god just live our lives and
>>>>>> do our things. But it's also time that we demand the respect due us
>>>>>> as human beings.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:08 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wrote a bit about this a couple of weeks ago, but I've been
>>>>>>> thinking more on the topic ...I know scary!  LOL  Anyway I attended
>>>>>>> this diversity training seminar last spring.  It was a part of a
>>>>>>> larger training event on drug/alcohol prevention and not something
>>>>>>> I would have attended separately.  anyway the presenter talked
>>>>>>> about education and understanding different cultures and whatnot.
>>>>>>> There was a lot of emphasis on what she called cultural competency,
>>>>>>> which I took to mean being educated about various cultures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the whole time I'm sitting there listening to this presentation I'm
>>>>>>> thinking about the conversation we had about my hotel reservations.
>>>>>>> This particular presenter was the coordinator for the conference.
>>>>>>> She made the hotel reservations for many of the attendees because
>>>>>>> the sponsoring agency was covering the hotel.  It's much easier to
>>>>>>> do the paperwork that way.  Anyway she knows I'm blind and that I
>>>>>>> have
>>> Monty.
>>>>>>> she also knows I can walk up and down stairs and whatnot.  Still
>>>>>>> she informed the hotel that I needed a first floor room and that
>>>>>>> I'd be accompanied by a guide dog.  she also assured the hotel that
>>>>>>> I'd be no problem that I was quite independent.  I have no words to
>>>>>>> express my feelings about this statement.  Unimpressed is about the
>>>>>>> nicest thing I can say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So back to diversity training...she's talking about understanding
>>>>>>> and education and how important it is to know all about other
>>>>>>> people of various cultures, races, disabilities etc.  Immediately
>>>>>>> after this lecture we have a break where no less than three people
>>>>>>> come up to me to ask inappropriate questions or to pet Monty
>>>>>>> without asking.  Honestly I'm not opposed to answering questions,
>>>>>>> but when I'm engaged in a different conversation and you interrupt
>>>>>>> to ask how much I can see, well it's just rude.  It was at that
>>>>>>> moment that I realized that I don't give a crap about education or
>>>>>>> understanding or cultural competency or whatever you want to call
>>>>>>> it.  Sure if people understood, I mean really got it, about
>>>>>>> blindness that would be grand.  I don't need that though.
>>>>>>> What I really, really want is respect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.ne
>>>> t
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> t
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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