[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Sat Jun 9 22:15:44 UTC 2012

I know, seriously! I would never ever consider reporting an individual
unless I saw something happen in person, and like I said, if it was
obvious abuse like they were beating their dog, or if their dog
attacked mine or something. I don't see where what other people do
with their dogs is any of my business anyway.
Laurel and Stockard

On 6/9/12, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see where it would be any of my concern. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>
>
>> Not me!  I would only report on really big issues that I have observed.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 1:30 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>>
>>
>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog
>>>
>>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned
>>> on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't
>>>
>>> use the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that?
>>> And do they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound
>>> super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter,
>>> would most trainers take these reports seriously, over the information
>>> given by the guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>>
>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>
>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might
>>>
>>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy
>>> little head before.
>>>
>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not
>>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you do"
>>>
>>> discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one guide
>>>
>>> dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a guide
>>> dog user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly as to
>>> cause risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and his
>>> dog in danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of
>>> getting in touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember
>>> that there was a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of
>>> action. They were "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed.
>>> /smile/
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists.
>>>
>>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has
>>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>
>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking
>>> me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist
>>>
>>> that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said
>>> about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try
>>>
>>> to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>
>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on
>>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from this
>>>
>>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how
>>> they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I
>>> don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it
>>> is.
>>>
>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I
>>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the
>>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well.
>>>
>>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as
>>> to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh!
>>>
>>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the
>>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and
>>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a great
>>>
>>> big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs back to
>>> school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of things I can
>>>
>>> recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs
>>> getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new dogs, young
>>>
>>> dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it worked out and can
>>>
>>> figure out for themselves if they need to contact the trainer. But, I
>>> guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I won't
>>> do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>
>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or
>>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are
>>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>
>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want to
>>>
>>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat their
>>>
>>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>
>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not
>>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that.
>>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on
>>>
>>> my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know
>>>
>>> better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus
>>> routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work
>>>
>>> that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>>
>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really...
>>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified
>>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a
>>>
>>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to
>>> have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a
>>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public
>>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the
>>>
>>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at the
>>>
>>> certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified. The
>>> nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on
>>> them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to
>>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them.
>>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and
>>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a
>>>
>>> feeling I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog
>>> user's friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed
>>> to me that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/
>>> I've never even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's
>>> anyone's choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why
>>> get uptight about it? /lol/
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
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