[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Sat Jun 9 22:08:30 UTC 2012

I don't see where it would be any of my concern. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users


> Not me!  I would only report on really big issues that I have observed.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 1:30 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>
>
>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog 
>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned 
>> on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't 
>> use the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that? 
>> And do they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound 
>> super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter, 
>> would most trainers take these reports seriously, over the information 
>> given by the guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>
>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>
>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might 
>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy 
>> little head before.
>>
>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not 
>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you do" 
>> discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one guide 
>> dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a guide 
>> dog user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly as to 
>> cause risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and his 
>> dog in danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of 
>> getting in touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember 
>> that there was a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of 
>> action. They were "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed. 
>> /smile/
>>
>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who 
>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists. 
>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has 
>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>
>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random 
>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking 
>> me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist 
>> that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said 
>> about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try 
>> to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>
>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on 
>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from this 
>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how 
>> they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I 
>> don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it is.
>>
>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I 
>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the 
>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well. 
>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as 
>> to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh! 
>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the 
>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and 
>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a great 
>> big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs back to 
>> school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of things I can 
>> recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs 
>> getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new dogs, young 
>> dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it worked out and can 
>> figure out for themselves if they need to contact the trainer. But, I 
>> guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I won't 
>> do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>
>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report 
>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or 
>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are 
>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>
>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want to 
>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat their 
>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>
>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never 
>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not 
>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that. 
>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on 
>> my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know 
>> better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus 
>> routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work 
>> that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>
>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really... 
>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified 
>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a 
>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to 
>> have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a 
>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public 
>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the 
>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at the 
>> certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified. The 
>> nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on 
>> them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to 
>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them. 
>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and 
>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a 
>> feeling I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog 
>> user's friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed 
>> to me that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ 
>> I've never even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's 
>> anyone's choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why 
>> get uptight about it? /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
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