[nagdu] Congratulations!

Bob Hicks bob at seeinghandassociation.com
Mon Jun 11 14:34:25 UTC 2012


Congrats Tami & DD!

Best regards,

Bob Hicks
Access Technology Specialist
Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
304-232-4810
<bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Congratulations!


> Heavens! I just tossed that in, forgetting I hadn't gotten to announcing 
> that we did the deed. My face is red.
>
> Yes, it is DD, and we did the "M thing" in a small private ceremony on 
> April 24, 2012. I've been waiting to go around announcing it for when I 
> get the identity crisis bit worked out. /lol/ So I still almost never use 
> my married name, except for when I do. So more identity crisis, I guess. 
> /smile/
>
> Thanks for the congrats!
>
> I'll get right on that certification thing... Teehee. I've been thinking 
> of you because while I'm answering questions about owner-training on 
> another list, people keep talking to me like I don't know squat... And I 
> think of the people like you and others from whom I learned so much while 
> I try to explain how us radical types learn to do the impossible of 
> training our own guides. /smile/
>
> How is your uncertified undog guide? /smile/
>
> Tami
>
> On 06/09/2012 05:14 PM, Ann Edie wrote:
>> Hi, Tami,
>>
>> Ah, how come you didn't tell us you were getting married?  I presume the
>> lucky spouse is the person who used to be referred to on list as DD? 
>> Well,
>> anyway, here's wishing you and the whole human and canine family many 
>> happy
>> years of blissful togetherness!  Don't forget to get your name changed on
>> Mitzie's "official" guide dog certificate, or her trainer may come 
>> repossess
>> her at any moment, because the name of the handler on the certificate
>> doesn't match yours!
>>
>> Congratulations!
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Tami Kinney
>> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 3:16 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>>
>> Jenny,
>>
>> Yes, I remember hearing about that and your telling about it. Sigh. In 
>> fact,
>> it's your story that I keep thinking of and then worrying about this 
>> similar
>> situation that I am closer to. Sigh. Life is too short!
>>
>> I'm glad you're back and getting on with your applications, extra
>> frustrations and all. Yikes! I have a bunch of that same identity stuff 
>> to
>> get worked out, too, moreso since I recently got married and now have to 
>> get
>> my name switched everywhere only... Where to start! /lol/ I'm afraid to
>> start in the places I'm required to in case they get more screwed up and
>> stop getting the checks to me... This week, it is on the agenda, but I 
>> just
>> shudder to think.
>>
>> Take care, and I'm glad you're hear and sharing your quest for your next
>> dog. /smile/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 06/09/2012 01:05 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>>> To answer your question.
>>>
>>> YES when I was having issues with my former guide last Easter and had to
>> retire him.  I told the list what had happened and let them know that the
>> school I had gotten the dog from had done some dirty manipulation to get 
>> me
>> to come back there after I had applied somewhere else and they found out
>> about it.
>>>
>>> there were threats made that if they found out what guide dog school I 
>>> had
>> applied to now, that they would assure that I never got a guide dog 
>> again,
>> and that I was a horrible handler, and that I was a B***h and that I 
>> never
>> should've been given a dog in the first place.
>>>
>>> The person that received that threat is on this list, though I will not
>> mention their name for their privacy.
>>>
>>> there are people who think they know best and will certainly stick their
>> noses where it doesn't belong because they think they know best.
>>>
>>> It is important to watch what you say on any list.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide 
>>>> dog
>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned 
>> on
>> discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't 
>> use
>> the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that? And do
>> they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound super
>> irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter, would 
>> most
>> trainers take these reports seriously, over the information given by the
>> guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>>>
>>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>>
>>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user 
>>>> might
>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy 
>> little
>> head before.
>>>>
>>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens!
>>>> Not for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would
>>>> you do" discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario
>>>> involving one guide dog attacking another and causing injury and
>>>> another involving a guide dog user reportedly regularly blowing a
>>>> street crossing so badly as to cause risk of traffic accidents in
>>>> addition to putting himself and his dog in danger. In those, I think
>>>> a few people raised the notion of getting in touch with the guide dog
>>>> user's school but I don't remember that there was a consensus that
>>>> this would be an appropriate course of action. They were "what if"
>>>> questions, so no consensus was needed. /smile/
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists. 
>> Not
>> this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has happened
>> before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>>
>>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking 
>> me
>> questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist 
>> that
>> I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said about 
>> what
>> Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try to clear
>> things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>>
>>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on
>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from this
>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how 
>> they're
>> helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I don't do
>> exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it is.
>>>>
>>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well,
>>>> I wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of
>>>> the group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um...
>>>> Oh, well. I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would
>>>> go so far as to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on
>>>> a list. Sheesh! I guess that this actually goes on in that group.
>>>> Heavens! Oddly, the "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to
>>>> the same school and have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if
>>>> they should get a great big van and fill it with crates and take the
>>>> whole lot of dogs back to school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there,
>>>> but the list of things I can recall that these helpful guide dog
>>>> users have reported their dogs getting up to are fairly amazing.
>>>> They're all relatively new dogs, young dogs, so I tend to figure the
>>>> handlers are getting it worked out and can figure out for themselves
>>>> if they need to contact the trainer. Bu
>> t, I guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I 
>> won't
>> do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>>
>>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or 
>> whatever?
>> Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are reporting is 
>> in
>> contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want 
>>>> to
>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat their
>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not 
>> making
>> that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that. 
>> However...
>> Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on my own 
>> years
>> ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know better than 
>> to
>> do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus routes around my 
>> home.
>> Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work that out on my own
>> somehow... Sheesh!
>>>>
>>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened,
>>>> really... So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a
>>>> certified guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when
>>>> I could get a certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively
>>>> new enough to have not read any of those discussions, there is no
>>>> such thing as a certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to
>>>> places of public accommodation. The guide dog training programs must
>>>> be certified for the consumer's protection. The trainers must also be
>>>> certified to work at the certified guide dog training program. The
>>>> dogs are not certified. The nice ID cards often have the relevant
>>>> portions of the law printed on them, which does make them useful.
>>>> They do not grant you access to anything at all, and it is illegal
>>>> for anyone to ask you to show them. /smile/ It's your dog's training
>>>> for your disability that counts, and your dog's good behavior, etc.,
>>>> once you walk into a place. But I have a feeli
>> ng I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's
>> friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me 
>> that
>> make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've never 
>> even
>> said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's anyone's choice 
>> what
>> they do with the ID card from their school, so why get uptight about it?
>> /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
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