[nagdu] Congratulations!
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Sun Jun 10 04:56:44 UTC 2012
Hi, Tami,
Well then, I guess we should keep the secret and not congratulate you until
your identities can come to a consensus about who you, or they, are, and
whether or not you, or they, actually did get married! Poor DD, I hope
someone lets him in on the secret sometime soon!
My uncertified undog guide is doing very well. She is 11 and a half years
old now, and still having a jolly time being my guide, which is pretty
amazing since everyone, especially horse people, knows that you can't train
an animal to do serious work using just a clicker and treats. Fortunately,
Panda just went ahead and showed that clicker training was just the ticket
for her! And I'm just as happy to give up the role of policeman. It was
one I never did like at all when working with my dogs. Given a choice
between the identities of "enforcer" and "reinforcer", I'll pick the latter
role every time.
We're very happily busy, or is it very busily happy? Oh well, whichever it
is, we hope you are likewise
Best,
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tami Kinney
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 5:32 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Congratulations!
Heavens! I just tossed that in, forgetting I hadn't gotten to announcing
that we did the deed. My face is red.
Yes, it is DD, and we did the "M thing" in a small private ceremony on April
24, 2012. I've been waiting to go around announcing it for when I get the
identity crisis bit worked out. /lol/ So I still almost never use my married
name, except for when I do. So more identity crisis, I guess. /smile/
Thanks for the congrats!
I'll get right on that certification thing... Teehee. I've been thinking of
you because while I'm answering questions about owner-training on another
list, people keep talking to me like I don't know squat... And I think of
the people like you and others from whom I learned so much while I try to
explain how us radical types learn to do the impossible of training our own
guides. /smile/
How is your uncertified undog guide? /smile/
Tami
On 06/09/2012 05:14 PM, Ann Edie wrote:
> Hi, Tami,
>
> Ah, how come you didn't tell us you were getting married? I presume
> the lucky spouse is the person who used to be referred to on list as
> DD? Well, anyway, here's wishing you and the whole human and canine
> family many happy years of blissful togetherness! Don't forget to get
> your name changed on Mitzie's "official" guide dog certificate, or her
> trainer may come repossess her at any moment, because the name of the
> handler on the certificate doesn't match yours!
>
> Congratulations!
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Tami Kinney
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 3:16 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>
> Jenny,
>
> Yes, I remember hearing about that and your telling about it. Sigh. In
> fact, it's your story that I keep thinking of and then worrying about
> this similar situation that I am closer to. Sigh. Life is too short!
>
> I'm glad you're back and getting on with your applications, extra
> frustrations and all. Yikes! I have a bunch of that same identity
> stuff to get worked out, too, moreso since I recently got married and
> now have to get my name switched everywhere only... Where to start!
> /lol/ I'm afraid to start in the places I'm required to in case they
> get more screwed up and stop getting the checks to me... This week, it
> is on the agenda, but I just shudder to think.
>
> Take care, and I'm glad you're hear and sharing your quest for your
> next dog. /smile/
>
> Tami
>
> On 06/09/2012 01:05 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>> To answer your question.
>>
>> YES when I was having issues with my former guide last Easter and had
>> to
> retire him. I told the list what had happened and let them know that
> the school I had gotten the dog from had done some dirty manipulation
> to get me to come back there after I had applied somewhere else and
> they found out about it.
>>
>> there were threats made that if they found out what guide dog school
>> I had
> applied to now, that they would assure that I never got a guide dog
> again, and that I was a horrible handler, and that I was a B***h and
> that I never should've been given a dog in the first place.
>>
>> The person that received that threat is on this list, though I will
>> not
> mention their name for their privacy.
>>
>> there are people who think they know best and will certainly stick
>> their
> noses where it doesn't belong because they think they know best.
>>
>> It is important to watch what you say on any list.
>>
>> Jenny
>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>
>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide
>>> dog
> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps
> mentioned on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being
> reported doesn't use the collar the reporter believes they should use,
> stuff like that? And do they do it in a way that makes the one they
> are reporting sound super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to
> help? For that matter, would most trainers take these reports
> seriously, over the information given by the guide dog user who has been
reported to them?
>>>
>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>
>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user
>>> might
> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy
> little head before.
>>>
>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens!
>>> Not for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what
>>> would you do" discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario
>>> involving one guide dog attacking another and causing injury and
>>> another involving a guide dog user reportedly regularly blowing a
>>> street crossing so badly as to cause risk of traffic accidents in
>>> addition to putting himself and his dog in danger. In those, I think
>>> a few people raised the notion of getting in touch with the guide
>>> dog user's school but I don't remember that there was a consensus
>>> that this would be an appropriate course of action. They were "what if"
>>> questions, so no consensus was needed. /smile/
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users
>>> who
> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion
> lists. Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it
> has happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>
>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in
>>> random
> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are
> asking me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they
> start insist that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what
> I just said about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and
> rattled and try to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>
>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said
>>> on
> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from
> this group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about
> how they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because
> I don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it
is.
>>>
>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly
>>> well, I wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few
>>> members of the group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but...
Um...
>>> Oh, well. I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would
>>> go so far as to call the trainer on another user because of a blip
>>> on a list. Sheesh! I guess that this actually goes on in that group.
>>> Heavens! Oddly, the "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go
>>> to the same school and have the same trainer... Which makes me
>>> wonder if they should get a great big van and fill it with crates
>>> and take the whole lot of dogs back to school. /lol/ I'm delving in
>>> sarcasm there, but the list of things I can recall that these
>>> helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs getting up to are
fairly amazing.
>>> They're all relatively new dogs, young dogs, so I tend to figure the
>>> handlers are getting it worked out and can figure out for themselves
>>> if they need to contact the trainer. Bu
> t, I guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I
> won't do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>
>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users
>>> report
> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or whatever?
> Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are reporting
> is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>
>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks
>>> want to
> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat
> their reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>
>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should
>>> never
> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not
> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that.
However...
> Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on my own
> years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know
> better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus
routes around my home.
> Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work that out on my own
> somehow... Sheesh!
>>>
>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened,
>>> really... So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have
>>> a certified guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train
>>> when I could get a certified guide dog? Um... For those who are
>>> relatively new enough to have not read any of those discussions,
>>> there is no such thing as a certified guide dog in terms of the ADA
>>> and access to places of public accommodation. The guide dog training
>>> programs must be certified for the consumer's protection. The
>>> trainers must also be certified to work at the certified guide dog
>>> training program. The dogs are not certified. The nice ID cards
>>> often have the relevant portions of the law printed on them, which does
make them useful.
>>> They do not grant you access to anything at all, and it is illegal
>>> for anyone to ask you to show them. /smile/ It's your dog's training
>>> for your disability that counts, and your dog's good behavior, etc.,
>>> once you walk into a place. But I have a feeli
> ng I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's
> friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me
> that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've
> never even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's
> anyone's choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why
get uptight about it?
> /lol/
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
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