[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Mon Jun 11 19:16:51 UTC 2012


How do you know you were ignored when you called the other school about the dog?
What would make you feel your concerns were taken seriously?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:04 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Hello,

I have been reported on several occasions by either people that have
decided they no longer like me or by members of the public who don't
realize why I am correcting my dog, what a correction is supposed to
look like, or whatever. I have gotten one call from the Seeing Eye
informing me that I was reported and asking me if I was working OK
with my dog and whether I was having an issues, and after explaining
to them that Abbie is well, that I won't allow her to chase squirrels
particularly while crossing a street and that one of those animal
abuse nutts saw that and questioned me, they asked no more questions
and I went about with my day with no more worry. It goes the other
way, too though. I have called in to a school to report a very
aggressive dog at Leader Dogs and was ignored, or at least it appeared
that I was ignored. I also called Pilot Dogs because of one of their
dog teams having very serious issues and was ignored. I think that
there should be a way to file complaints and that complaints should be
checked out whenever possible so long as it doesn't interfere with the
working dog team. I had no problems whatsoever with the Seeing Eye
calling me and asking me if I required assistance or if my work with
Abbie was going well, and I have no problems with them educating the
public when they call to complain about something I do especially if
my school knows me and knows that I would not abuse my dog and that I
have always communicated with them promptly when problems did come up.
I do have issues though when teams do have serious issues and the
schools ignore calls and complaints about a team. If someone truly saw
me abusing my dog or my school received many complaints about the same
issue, I hope they would do something other than call me and ask me if
I was OK.

Thanks.

On 6/9/12, Jenny Keller <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tammy,
>
> Start at the DMV, then go directly to the Social Security Office, then go to
> your bank right after that.
>
> try to do it all in the same day if you can.  the next day, if you get
> medicaid and Food Stamps, go there.  You can call the 1-800-772-1213 number
> for a replacement Medicare card.
>
> the only people I haven't gotten my name changed with is the Food
> Stamp/Medicaid people, and that's not for lack of trying.  they have been
> the ones to not do their jobs properly, so I have to go back down there
> again probably next week.
>
> I had ingrown toenails removed of both sides of my toes on both big toes, so
> walking is not my most favorite thing to do now.  My feet have swollen since
> then, and that's been since Wednesday.
>
> I didn't think that it was going to be this big of a deal, the thing with my
> toes, but boy oh boy was I wrong.
>
> Good night have have a great rest of your weekend.
>
> Jenny
> On Jun 9, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>
>> Jenny,
>>
>> Yes, I remember hearing about that and your telling about it. Sigh. In
>> fact, it's your story that I keep thinking of and then worrying about this
>> similar situation that I am closer to. Sigh. Life is too short!
>>
>> I'm glad you're back and getting on with your applications, extra
>> frustrations and all. Yikes! I have a bunch of that same identity stuff to
>> get worked out, too, moreso since I recently got married and now have to
>> get my name switched everywhere only... Where to start! /lol/ I'm afraid
>> to start in the places I'm required to in case they get more screwed up
>> and stop getting the checks to me... This week, it is on the agenda, but I
>> just shudder to think.
>>
>> Take care, and I'm glad you're hear and sharing your quest for your next
>> dog. /smile/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 06/09/2012 01:05 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>>> To answer your question.
>>>
>>> YES when I was having issues with my former guide last Easter and had to
>>> retire him.  I told the list what had happened and let them know that the
>>> school I had gotten the dog from had done some dirty manipulation to get
>>> me to come back there after I had applied somewhere else and they found
>>> out about it.
>>>
>>> there were threats made that if they found out what guide dog school I
>>> had applied to now, that they would assure that I never got a guide dog
>>> again, and that I was a horrible handler, and that I was a B***h and that
>>> I never should've been given a dog in the first place.
>>>
>>> The person that received that threat is on this list, though I will not
>>> mention their name for their privacy.
>>>
>>> there are people who think they know best and will certainly stick their
>>> noses where it doesn't belong because they think they know best.
>>>
>>> It is important to watch what you say on any list.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog
>>>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned
>>>> on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported
>>>> doesn't use the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like
>>>> that? And do they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting
>>>> sound super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that
>>>> matter, would most trainers take these reports seriously, over the
>>>> information given by the guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>>>
>>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>>
>>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might
>>>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy
>>>> little head before.
>>>>
>>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not
>>>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you
>>>> do" discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one
>>>> guide dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a
>>>> guide dog user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly
>>>> as to cause risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and
>>>> his dog in danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of
>>>> getting in touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember
>>>> that there was a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of
>>>> action. They were "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed.
>>>> /smile/
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>>>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists.
>>>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has
>>>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>>
>>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>>>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking
>>>> me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start
>>>> insist that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just
>>>> said about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled
>>>> and try to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>>
>>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on
>>>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from this
>>>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how
>>>> they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I
>>>> don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it
>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I
>>>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the
>>>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well.
>>>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as
>>>> to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh!
>>>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the
>>>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and
>>>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a
>>>> great big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs
>>>> back to school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of
>>>> things I can recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported
>>>> their dogs getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new
>>>> dogs, young dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it worked
>>>> out and can figure out for themselves if they need to contact the
>>>> trainer. Bu
>> t, I guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I
>> won't do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>>
>>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>>>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or
>>>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are
>>>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want
>>>> to report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat
>>>> their reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>>>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not
>>>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that.
>>>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out
>>>> on my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I
>>>> know better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the
>>>> bus routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to
>>>> work that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>>>
>>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really...
>>>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified
>>>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a
>>>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to
>>>> have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a
>>>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public
>>>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the
>>>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at
>>>> the certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified.
>>>> The nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on
>>>> them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to
>>>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them.
>>>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and
>>>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a
>>>> feeli
>> ng I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's
>> friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me
>> that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've never
>> even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's anyone's
>> choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why get uptight
>> about it? /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
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>>>
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