[nagdu] Altercation on the bus yesterday - who "wins"?

Fri Jun 15 00:17:51 UTC 2012

Hey Julie,
My setiments - what, are we getting old or what?  It took me YEARS to learn 
how to pick my battles and let the other crap go.  I actually have fun 
watching someone scream and yell at me and I walk off leaving them to scream 
at themselves! Hahahahaha!

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Altercation on the bus yesterday - who "wins"?

> Jenny,
>
> It takes at least two people to argue.  If you don't argue back, then 
> there is no argument.
>
> I always wonder if it is truly necessary to educate or get in our say or 
> whatever every single time someone says something about the dog?  I mean 
> this honestly.  If the other person has no authority to do anything and we 
> have no interest in a relationship with this person, is it important for 
> them to understand anything about us?
>
> I don't mean that we should give into whatever demands the other person is 
> making or change our plans.  I mean why can't we just continue on doing 
> whatever and ignore the other person's inappropriateness?  Surely if the 
> man with the guide dog had made a single statement like, "okay, I'm headed 
> to the back anyway" and then moved on, the woman would have been left 
> arguing with no one and looking like a bigger fool than she already did.
>
> Anyway I say conserve your energy for the things that are a really big 
> deal and let the rest of the crap slide on by.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
>
> On 6/7/2012 5:08 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>> thank you for your input.  No, there was no inhailers or wheesing or 
>> anything going on, just a big argument, both between the man with the 
>> guide and the woman in the wheelchair, and then when the bus driver told 
>> them to cut it out, she began to argue with him.
>>
>> Had I been him, and she began to argue with me, I'd have put her out, 
>> wheelchair or not.
>>
>> I believe that had someone who wasn't disabled raised that much fuss on 
>> the bus, and argued that much with a driver, that person would've been 
>> put out of the bus then and there.  I feel that she should've been 
>> treated the same way, disabled or not.
>>
>> we can't behaved badly or rudely making scenes with others and even the 
>> driver, who is trying to get us where we need to go safely, and at that 
>> point, probably watching the rearview mirror to make sure everything was 
>> safe inside the bus too, just because we're in a wheelchair or have a 
>> dog, or have a cane.
>>
>> In short, I felt like that kind of distraction caused by the two arguing 
>> and then the woman arguing with the driver, was simply unsafe for all of 
>> the passengers on the bus, as he could've been so distracted that it 
>> caused an accident.  fortunately it didn't, but the drivers of public 
>> transportation can't be distracted by people, disabled or not, by people 
>> who behave badly for any reason.
>>
>> As I've said before, if a non-disabled person probably would've been put 
>> off the bus, I feel like she should've gotten the same treatment.
>>
>> Jenny
>> On Jun 7, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Dailyah Patt wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jenny and all,
>>>
>>> As a sighted person who has a service dog (not a guide) and uses a 
>>> wheelchair, as well as being the director of a legal advocacy program 
>>> focused on service dogs of all types and their handlers - I want to take 
>>> a moment to speak to this.  (BTW:  I don't find any of the commentary on 
>>> this thread the least bit offensive.  It is what it is and we all need 
>>> our tools to get around in the world.)
>>>
>>> I'm going to really simplify this, but when it comes to public transit 
>>> and accommodating peoples' different disabilities, whoever has the more 
>>> serious disability "wins".  (Not a great way to put it, but this comes 
>>> up a lot with air travel...someone is griping that they're allergic. 
>>> So, the question becomes, "How serious is their allergy?"  My 
>>> disabilities aren't usually imminently life-threatening, but they're 
>>> fairly serious.)  Obviously this gal's dog allergy was not life 
>>> threatening as she neither requested to get off the bus (to protect her 
>>> health) - nor have you made any mention of hearing her take an inhaler 
>>> or anything to head off the potential allergic reaction.  If it is the 
>>> case that the allergy rises to the level of the dog handler's disability 
>>> or is even more serious (like, life threatening...which is rare, but 
>>> possible), then the transportation provider must reasonably accommodate 
>>> both parties - usually by rerouting or calling
>>> paratransit for one party or the other and generally the person with the 
>>> more "serious" disability is who is probably going to get priority.
>>>
>>> I always hope that people can interact reasonably via a third party if 
>>> such a thing does come up, but disability often gets peoples' hackles up 
>>> REALLY fast.  I've only once run into this.  It was a flight and I knew 
>>> something was up when I turned up at the gate and this lady made a 
>>> beeline away from me and towards an agent. (This is usually a good 
>>> indicator about someone's ACTUAL level of allergy.  If they're THAT 
>>> allergic, they're not going to stand and argue with you with the dog 
>>> right there, they're going to move away, right?  Duh!)  The agent came 
>>> over to me, explained the situation and then through the agent the lady 
>>> and I traded info regarding what each of us was travelling for and what 
>>> our time tables looked like.  I don't even remember which one of us got 
>>> re-routed, but it wasn't a giant deal. We were both disabled and made a 
>>> fair compromise.  If only it were always so easy, right?
>>>
>>> The individual you've described, Jenny, sounds more like someone who is 
>>> used to "invoking" disability to get her way (which I've never 
>>> understood) and she may have had numerous other things going on ranging 
>>> from being fearful of dogs (when sometimes folks say they're allergic 
>>> instead of admitting they are afraid) to having some sort of pain flare 
>>> up with was making her particularly grumpy to she just woke up on the 
>>> wrong side of the bed that day.  Ya just never know.  I do try to give 
>>> people the benefit of the doubt when I can, but I did want to speak to 
>>> how I've seen "dueling disabilities" handled.
>>>
>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
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>>
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