[nagdu] "Reasonable Accommodations", was Picking up the busy busy when you've parked your dog. lol

Ann Edie annedie at nycap.rr.com
Sun Jun 24 04:34:06 UTC 2012


Hi, Dailyah,

Thank you for the information about "reasonable accommodation" and
"modification of policies" under the ADA.  I do not doubt the truth of what
you have said.  However, for my further edification, can you tell me where
to find reference to "reasonable accommodations" for persons with
disabilities accompanied by service animals in reference to Titles 2 and 3
of the ADA.  In the part of the DOJ rulemaking which you referred to in your
message, I do not see or remember reading any reference to "reasonable
accommodations".  It states the newly revised definition of service animals,
(which you correctly state does not include miniature horses), and also
states that a business owner or management must modify policies and
practices which would otherwise result in denial of equal access to persons
with disabilities to the services and products provided by that place of
business.  The rulemaking document goes on to state the rights and
responsibilities of both the management of places of public accommodation
and of the service animal handler.  At the end of the section, there is a
statement that owners/managers of places of public accommodation should also
allow access to their businesses to persons with disabilities accompanied by
miniature horse service animals.  This section lists some extra
considerations and questions which proprietors can factor in when
considering allowing access to the disabled person who is accompanied by a
service horse, such as the size and weight of the service animal and the
space constraints of the place of business.  But, as I said, I don't
remember any express reference to this as a "reasonable accommodation" as
opposed to a "modification of a "no pets" policy of the establishment.

I am very familiar with the concept of "reasonable accommodations" in
employment situations and even more familiar with the classroom
accommodations and modifications of curriculum and teaching methods under
the IDEA and other education laws.  I just don't know where to find the
reference to "reasonable accommodations" in the case of Titles 2 and 3 of
the ADA.

Thanks for helping me clarify these points.

Best,
Ann


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dailyah Patt
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:28 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Picking up the busy busy when you've parked your dog.
lol

Hi Julie,

I live in the SF Bay Area and, at least around here, there are enough
disabled folks with dogs who could need the exemption that it's undoubtedly
less hassle for everyone impacted to just paint with a broad brush.  And,
honestly, the only times I've had it come up is with The ProBoneO
Program...disputes with neighbors or businesses that are less than friendly
to the entire Service Dog concept where it's come to a head because the
disabled person is unable to scoop the poop.

Ann, "reasonable accommodation" is something that can be considered when it
comes to public access.  Miniature horses provide an easy example of this.
 While miniature horses do not meet the revised definition of Service Animal
under the ADA, they should be considered as a potential reasonable
accommodation with respect to access.  They aren't Service Animals, but the
DOJ guidelines suggest that places like restaurants allow the miniature
guide horse if they are able to do so without putting anyone in danger,
fundamentally altering how they have to do business, etc.  So, they're not
Service Animals.  They're an allowable reasonable accommodation.

Respectfully,
Dailyah


>________________________________
> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Picking up the busy busy when you've parked your 
>dog. lol
> 
>Hi, Julie,
>
>It is my understanding that "reasonable accommodations" come into play 
>in employment situations and educational situations.  I am not aware 
>that the concept of "reasonable accommodations" applies to the 
>situation of "access to places of public accommodation".  However, if 
>access to public places were to be denied to a person with a disability 
>because he/she was unable to pick up after his/her service animal, I 
>guess that might be considered discrimination on the basis of 
>disability, and I suppose the entity would be required to make an 
>exception to its ordinance or policy requiring that people pick up 
>after their dogs for the person with a disability that makes picking up
impossible.
>
>Best,
>Ann
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>Behalf Of Julie J.
>Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:24 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Picking up the busy busy when you've parked your dog.
>lol
>
>Steve,
>
>Could a person request a reasonable accommodation from the city of not 
>picking up after their service dog if they were physically unable to, 
>say from some sort of orthopedic disability?
>If a reasonable accommodation could be requested like this, I think it 
>would completely negate city ordinances that involve broad groups of 
>people who may or may not actually need the exemption.
>
>Julie
>
>
>
>On 6/23/2012 5:18 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>> Wow, never heard of such an ordinance.  I would look at this as 
>> reverse discrimination.  The only way I would ever see a municipal 
>> authority in exempting is if and only if, they had a clause that 
>> provided that they have an alternative means of collecting the waste.
>> i.e. another person, reacher, doggie pick up business.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Dailyah Patt
>> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:20 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Picking up the busy busy when you've parked your
dog.
>> lol
>>
>> I think it's probably worth noting that folks should check out their 
>> city municipal code.  A great many cities have exemptions on the 
>> books for folks who are blind or otherwise so physically impaired 
>> that picking up is difficult to impossible.  I am one of those who 
>> usually can't do the baggie thing, so I just make sure my dog is WAY 
>> off in the boonies where the odds of something stepping in it go down 
>> (bushes, tall grass, outskirt of parking lot).  If I have someone 
>> with me, often that person can and will scoop for me - but I wanted 
>> to make
>sure that folks are aware of these exemptions.
>>   While it'd be nice if we all could scoop, that's just not reality  
>>and so thankfully many cities exempt disabled persons.
>>
>> Dailyah
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