[nagdu] crowded trains

Sun Mar 4 18:17:44 UTC 2012

Hi Marsha, Cindy,

I do appreciate a seat when riding the bus or trolley these days as a 61 
year old with arthritis in my knees and feet.  In my younger days I did LOTS 
of standing on buses and trolleys both with a guide dog or not.

I never felt like people thought I was a "helpless blind person" and still 
don't.  When I am seated, my dog is under the seat and out of the aisle. 
When standing, Landon is in the aisle where he can get run over by carts and 
baby strollers even when he is also standing.

What I don't like is when the young kids coming from school are taking up 
all the seats in the front where many seniors and disabled riders need to 
sit.  This area is the best for my dog's safety as the other areas on the 
bus are real tight and Landon's butt sticks right into the foot space of the 
rider sitting behind me.  As a younger person, I did give my seat up for 
seniors before I needed it myself.  Now, I want the younger folks to give 
their seat to me so I can get my dog out to the way and my knees to be more 
or less comfortable.  Trying to keep my balance on a moving bus does bother 
my knees but I do stand if I have to.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] crowded trains

> No, I think it bothers many of us at some level because we feel the same 
> way. I'm just getting to a place now where I'm not going to worry about it 
> that much. You just can't be that tense about it all the time, but I'll 
> fight it where it matters most if I can. I think it might be a little rude 
> to refuse when someone insists, and really, what have you proved. I would 
> try to avoid it and if I couldn't avoid the sitting down, I would just 
> live with it.
>
> Cindy
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>
>> That is very true about the men giving up their seat for me. And I do say 
>> No
>> Thank you, but if someone is so insistent, then what are you going to do? 
>> If
>> they are insistent, wouldn't it be rude for me not to take the seat?
>>
>> It probably bothers me, because I don't want people to see me as the
>> "helpless" blind person. Just because it does bother me, doesn't mean
>> anything really, its more of a me thing.
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:01 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] crowded trains
>>
>> Marsha,
>> The people on the train have probably figured out that some days you are 
>> not
>> able to stand and other days you are.
>> They don't have a clue what causes this.
>> I'd just say no thank you when you don't need or want a seat.
>> Also, some of these people may be giving up their seats for their own
>> reasons, a man may think "my dad told me to give my seat toa woman" and
>> since you're a woman well, you get the seat.
>> I'm not real sure why this bothers you. You do have the option to say no
>> thank you.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Marsha Drenth
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:56 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] crowded trains
>>
>> That depends on if my vertigo is effecting more that day than normal. If 
>> it
>> is yes, if not then no. Does that make sense?
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:33 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] crowded trains
>>
>> Before I give my answer, do you actually feel safer/more comfortable if 
>> you
>> are sitting?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:04 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] crowded trains
>>
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting situation to talk about. I am a student at Temple
>>> University
>>> in Philadelphia and live outside of the metro Philly area. This means 
>>> that
>>> when I go to school I am riding the SEPTA regional rail system. During 
>>> the
>>> day when I ride to school the trains are usually not crowded. Its in the
>>> evening during rush hour that the train is so crowded its standing room
>>> only. I usually get the same train in the evenings, so some of the 
>>> people
>>> are use to me by now. I try to get on the same car but this is hard as 
>>> the
>>> platforms are long and the train might pull up to different places. When 
>>> I
>>> get on, I know its crowded, and I am okay with standing. But usually
>>> another
>>> passenger insists on them getting up and I sitting down. Some days I 
>>> need
>>> this as the motion of the train makes my vertigo worse, but most days I
>>> don't need to sit. I have told other riders that it is not necessary for
>>> me
>>> to sit down. I do always have Emma with me. I have never had anyone be
>>> upset
>>> that Emma is lying on their feet because it is crowded.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I guess my questions are: If its crowded on a train, bus, or 
>>> whatever,
>>> do
>>> you stand? How do you make other riders less insistent to get up and 
>>> give
>>> up
>>> their seat?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps its my pride that doesn't like others giving up their seat.
>>> Perhaps
>>> I think if they get up and give me their seat, I am needy and helpless,
>>> and
>>> that poor blind girl that can't stand. Its uncomfortable to say the 
>>> least.
>>
>>> I
>>> know people are trying to be nice and polite, and I always Thank them 
>>> for
>>> the gesture. And even the car conductor has insisted that a passenger or
>>> two
>>> gets up to give me a seat or room for my pup. Like I said these are
>>> typically conductors who do not know me. Really truly and honestly I am
>>> okay
>>> with standing. It's an express train, so for the first 7 stops it does 
>>> not
>>> stop, and at the first stop a huge lot of people get off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What would you do? How would you handle this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ideas, comments, are welcome. Also, it is not an option that I take an
>>> earlier train or a later train. As the earlier one I am in class and the
>>> later doesn't leave my campus for another hour, this is the last of the
>>> rush
>>> hour trains.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your help is appreciated,
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
>> m
>>
>>
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