[nagdu] GDB & Ownership of guide dog
Marianne Hewitt
maryfairy2880 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 13 07:11:41 UTC 2012
RE: GDB & OWNERSHIP OF A DOG
I wanted to clarify that GDB does offer the option of ownership of your dog after 1 year of working successfully with the dog.
Marianne Hewitt Robbins
maryfairy2880 at gmail.com
"Love is an Action Word."
On Mar 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Marion Gwizdala)
> 2. Re: to daniel (Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC))
> 3. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Julie J.)
> 4. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Hannah Chadwick)
> 5. Re: Embarrassing Guide Dog Handlers (Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC))
> 6. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Nimer)
> 7. Re: ownership (Nimer)
> 8. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Sheila Leigland)
> 9. Re: ownership (Cindy Ray)
> 10. Re: ownership (Nimer)
> 11. Re: Ownership of guide dog (t21114 at optonline.net)
> 12. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Marion Gwizdala)
> 13. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 14. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Hannah Chadwick)
> 15. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Hannah Chadwick)
> 16. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Buddy Brannan)
> 17. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 18. Re: ownership (Mariea Harris)
> 19. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Sheila Leigland)
> 20. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Margo and Arrow)
> 21. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 22. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Margo and Arrow)
> 23. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Mariea Harris)
> 24. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Mariea Harris)
> 25. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 26. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Marion Gwizdala)
> 27. Licensing Your Dog (Cindy Ray)
> 28. Pet licenses (Cindy Ray)
> 29. Re: Braille Monitor Article Concerning Fidelco (Ava Foster)
> 30. Re: Licensing Your Dog (Margo and Arrow)
> 31. Re: New Member (loriandleo)
> 32. Re: mya's vet visit. (loriandleo)
> 33. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Buddy Brannan)
> 34. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Brenda)
> 35. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Margo and Arrow)
> 36. Re: Licensing Your Dog (Cindy Ray)
> 37. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 38. Re: a guide dog story sad and sweet (Natalie)
> 39. Re: Licensing Your Dog (Margo and Arrow)
> 40. Re: Licensing Your Dog (Cindy Ray)
> 41. Re: was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement
> (The Pawpower Pack)
> 42. Re: was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement (Cindy Ray)
> 43. Re: was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement (Buddy Brannan)
> 44. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Marion Gwizdala)
> 45. Re: Ownership of guide dog (Buddy Brannan)
> 46. Re: was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement (Ava Foster)
> 47. Re: Licensing Your Dog (Hannah Chadwick)
> 48. harnesses (Hannah Chadwick)
> 49. Re: harnesses (Sean Moore )
> 50. Re: harnesses (Hannah Chadwick)
> 51. Re: harnesses (Sean Moore )
> 52. Re: harnesses (Hannah Chadwick)
> 53. Re: harnesses (Buddy Brannan)
> 54. Re: harnesses (Hannah Chadwick)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:57:44 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <3C8898043B29496690E2B6B8C94145C2 at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=response
>
> Passle,
> That would be great! I am trying to put together a file with all of the
> various ownership agreements. You can send it to me off-list to
>
> President at NAGDU.ORG Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Passle Helminski" <passle at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Marion,
>>
>> I will look for my ownership agreement. Yes, Ray did say that. I have
>> meetings in town soon but I will post my agreement to you when I return.
>>
>> Passle
>>
>>
>>> Passle,
>>> Well, I am getting conflicting information. It seems to me that last
>>> August you shared that "we own our dogs as long as we are using them as
>>> guides". I asked if you had the written agreement and you only shared
>>> that this information came from Ray. If you have an ownership agreement
>>> from Pilot, it would be very helpful. All we have to go on right now is
>>> hearsay assertions - nothing objectively in writing.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Passle Helminski"
>>> <passle at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>>>> I am a Pilot grad and I own my dog.
>>>>
>>>> Passle
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> R.J.,
>>>>> First of all, let me state that Pilot does not transfer ownership
>>>>> upon completion of training. In fact, I am unsure if they do at all or
>>>>> retain ownership ad infinitum. As for your question of our stand on
>>>>> ownership, I would refer you to the June 2011 Braille Monitor and the
>>>>> NAGDU Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights.
>>>>>
>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your opinion of a guide dog Schools retaining ownership of the
>>>>>> dog after training? I know some schools such as South eastern, and
>>>>>> piolet dogs give ownership of the guide dog to the student after
>>>>>> training. While others such as GDB retain ownership. Has the NFB made
>>>>>> an offical stance concerning this issue? RJ
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:53:31 +0000
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] to daniel
> Message-ID: <AAE38548E198F64B8E345439B68CCC7832FA1183 at TSEAMB02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I can understand a school not noticing something during training, or thinking it will resolve itself.
> Everybody makes a bad call now and then.
> What I don't understand is when a school acts like the handler doesn't know what he or she is talking about.
> Can any school reps explain this one?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mariea Harris
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:09 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] to daniel
>
> I'm new to the list, but read your e-mail about Scout. You did the best
> you could. If the school gives suggestions, I think it best to at least
> try them and you did so. Why they decided it wasn't a match after 3
> years is beyond me. I've been in similar shoes though. I've had a dog
> that wasn't a match and I worked her for 4 years. She never endangered
> me, but she had other issues that were annoying and I could not break.
> The school though didn't give me any help and made it out like it was my
> fault. I also felt like they thought I didn't know what I was talking
> about, when I indeed did. I also had to retire my previous guide after
> only having her a year. She developed fears after only a month of being
> home with me. The school came out twice and I did everything they
> suggested. Unfortunately, she just got worse and retiring her was the
> hardest thing I had to do. I loved her and her work, but her issues with
> transportation just wasn't getting better and it was hindering my
> mobility. Why these fears were never noticed during training and during
> my class are also a mystery, but it happens. Please stop beating
> yourself up. The school made the match, not you. You did your best to
> make it work. That's all one can do in these circumstances.
>
> --
>
>
> Mariea and Valiant
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 13:05:44 -0500
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <4F5E3AF8.4020005 at neb.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Could one of you post it to the list when it becomes available? I'd
> also be very interested to read it.
>
> Thanks!
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 3/12/2012 11:57 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>> Passle,
>> That would be great! I am trying to put together a file with all of
>> the various ownership agreements. You can send it to me off-list to
>>
>> President at NAGDU.ORG Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Passle Helminski"
>> <passle at roadrunner.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> I will look for my ownership agreement. Yes, Ray did say that. I
>>> have meetings in town soon but I will post my agreement to you when I
>>> return.
>>>
>>> Passle
>>>
>>>
>>>> Passle,
>>>> Well, I am getting conflicting information. It seems to me that
>>>> last August you shared that "we own our dogs as long as we are using
>>>> them as guides". I asked if you had the written agreement and you
>>>> only shared that this information came from Ray. If you have an
>>>> ownership agreement from Pilot, it would be very helpful. All we
>>>> have to go on right now is hearsay assertions - nothing objectively
>>>> in writing.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Passle Helminski"
>>>> <passle at roadrunner.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:06 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad and I own my dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Passle
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> R.J.,
>>>>>> First of all, let me state that Pilot does not transfer
>>>>>> ownership upon completion of training. In fact, I am unsure if
>>>>>> they do at all or retain ownership ad infinitum. As for your
>>>>>> question of our stand on ownership, I would refer you to the June
>>>>>> 2011 Braille Monitor and the NAGDU Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of
>>>>>> Rights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your opinion of a guide dog Schools retaining ownership
>>>>>>> of the dog after training? I know some schools such as South
>>>>>>> eastern, and piolet dogs give ownership of the guide dog to the
>>>>>>> student after training. While others such as GDB retain
>>>>>>> ownership. Has the NFB made an offical stance concerning this
>>>>>>> issue? RJ
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/passle%40roadrunner.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:06:10 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <00cd01cd007a$d1be9270$753bb750$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Passle,
> Did you apply for ownership or do all the graduates get it upon completion
> of the training?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Passle Helminski
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:25 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
> Marion,
>
> I will look for my ownership agreement. Yes, Ray did say that. I
> have meetings in town soon but I will post my agreement to you when I
> return.
>
> Passle
>
>
>> Passle,
>> Well, I am getting conflicting information. It seems to me that
>> last August you shared that "we own our dogs as long as we are using
>> them as guides". I asked if you had the written agreement and you only
>> shared that this information came from Ray. If you have an ownership
>> agreement from Pilot, it would be very helpful. All we have to go on
>> right now is hearsay assertions - nothing objectively in writing.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Passle Helminski"
>> <passle at roadrunner.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>>> I am a Pilot grad and I own my dog.
>>>
>>> Passle
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> R.J.,
>>>> First of all, let me state that Pilot does not transfer ownership
>>>> upon completion of training. In fact, I am unsure if they do at all
>>>> or retain ownership ad infinitum. As for your question of our stand
>>>> on ownership, I would refer you to the June
>>>> 2011 Braille Monitor and the NAGDU Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of
>>>> Rights.
>>>>
>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur"
>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>>> What is your opinion of a guide dog Schools retaining ownership of
>>>>> the dog after training? I know some schools such as South eastern,
>>>>> and piolet dogs give ownership of the guide dog to the student after
>>>>> training. While others such as GDB retain ownership. Has the NFB
>>>>> made an offical stance concerning this issue? RJ
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizo
>>>>> n.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/passle%40roadrunne
>>>> r.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu:
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>>> net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu:
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>> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> m
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:22:45 +0000
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Embarrassing Guide Dog Handlers
> Message-ID: <AAE38548E198F64B8E345439B68CCC7832FA1275 at TSEAMB02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> That's exactly what I'm saying.
>
> If I was this person, I wouldn't want to bbe talked about behind my back. And if this coworker watches this guy so closely, why isn't he offering to help?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Embarrassing Guide Dog Handlers
>
> Rebecca,
>
> I think what you are saying is that you think handlers should not be so
> judgmental about situations? Do I understand you correctly?
>
> This is a very true observation. There has been some inappropriate
> judgmental messages in this thread. Let's think about what we say in our
> emails before we send them, please.
>
> What if it was your dog? What if you were the handler? Would you appreciate
> the judgmental comments? Probably not
>
> Marsha, Moderator
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:56 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Embarrassing Guide Dog Handlers
>
> So did you offer to help this person?
> Maybe the handler doesn't give a rat's behind. Or, maybe they don't know how
> to resolve the issue.
> Knowing that something is not okay, and resolving that issue are two very
> different things.
> Better question is how first-time handlers can be so mean and
> unconstructive?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 7:23 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Embarrassing Guide Dog Handlers
>
> Some guide dog handlers are simply an embarrassment to us all. I was talking
> to someone today and they were asking me about a coworker who was a guide
> dog handler that had a guide dog that had accidents in the office on a daily
> basis. How can anyone take you seriously if your dog is so poorly behaved?
>
>
>
> If the dog is sick that is one thing. My dog got sick, and had an accident
> in my dorm, however, that was because he was sick, and I did not make it
> outside quick enough. But a dog having an accident the same time every day
> at your desk and the dog is not sick is purely unacceptable.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:48:49 -0400
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID:
> <CAF2O2CwPU_CtpOoo_Z89o+192AEVwiWhKbcHyEpUfhJAN8+v6w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello,
>
> There was a pilot grad that I know personally who was forced to retire
> her dog and the dog was younger due to the dog growling at new dogs on
> occasion. Pilot had already placed that dog with another owner prior.
> They wouldn't send anyone out to do follow-up, to work with the dog,
> etc etc. This is not ownership.
>
> On 12.03.2012, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Passle,
>> Did you apply for ownership or do all the graduates get it upon completion
>> of the training?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Passle Helminski
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:25 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>> Marion,
>>
>> I will look for my ownership agreement. Yes, Ray did say that. I
>> have meetings in town soon but I will post my agreement to you when I
>> return.
>>
>> Passle
>>
>>
>>> Passle,
>>> Well, I am getting conflicting information. It seems to me that
>>> last August you shared that "we own our dogs as long as we are using
>>> them as guides". I asked if you had the written agreement and you only
>>> shared that this information came from Ray. If you have an ownership
>>> agreement from Pilot, it would be very helpful. All we have to go on
>>> right now is hearsay assertions - nothing objectively in writing.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Passle Helminski"
>>> <passle at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>>>> I am a Pilot grad and I own my dog.
>>>>
>>>> Passle
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> R.J.,
>>>>> First of all, let me state that Pilot does not transfer ownership
>>>>> upon completion of training. In fact, I am unsure if they do at all
>>>>> or retain ownership ad infinitum. As for your question of our stand
>>>>> on ownership, I would refer you to the June
>>>>> 2011 Braille Monitor and the NAGDU Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of
>>>>> Rights.
>>>>>
>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your opinion of a guide dog Schools retaining ownership of
>>>>>> the dog after training? I know some schools such as South eastern,
>>>>>> and piolet dogs give ownership of the guide dog to the student after
>>>>>> training. While others such as GDB retain ownership. Has the NFB
>>>>>> made an offical stance concerning this issue? RJ
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizo
>>>>>> n.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/passle%40roadrunne
>>>>> r.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.
>>>> net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/passle%40roadrunner.
>>> com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> m
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
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> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:23:22 -0400
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
> Message-ID:
> <CAF2O2CwCQsf2CCUOWMRm9d1RisYjLis91V_wPsX1c5bE=jEKBg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello Mariea,
>
> My experience with Seeing Eye and talking to puppy raisors was that
> TSE did not want me to associate with the puppy raisor and actually I
> understand their reasoning. I wanted to however, so through Facebook
> and people that I know I was able to figure out who my Labster's
> raisor was. I found out soon after that had I asked TSE for help
> locating the puppy raisor, they would have contacted the raisor to see
> if they wanted contact, so this is good as well.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 12.03.2012, Mariea Harris <mharris1979 at carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>> I got my first and second dogs from GEB and GDB in that order. I didn't
>> care if the schools had ownership of my dog. So, to say that is wrong.
>> Some people may not understand, but not all new handlers will not. I
>> also had contact with both raisers of those dogs and only kept in touch
>> for a little while. So, when I went to TSE the no puppy raiser policy
>> didn't bother me. Now, I could say that someone going to TSE for the
>> first time may not realize how much their missing out on by not going to
>> a school where they would have that opportunity., but one can't miss
>> what one didn't have right? I also knew that after 1 to 2 years with a
>> dog from GEB and GDB I could choose to adopt the dog as my own. I did
>> neither though. Those were my decisions.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mariea and Valiant
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 13:23:57 -0600
> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <auto-000057519697 at fe-3.cluster1.bresnan.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thank you marion that is jus what I wanted to know. The buying of a car is a good analafy that I didn't even think about. Now it makes more sense about why ownership still works if assistance is needed. Peace.
>
> Sheila Leigland
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:27:34 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
> Message-ID: <948D6D15-96D9-48C9-BE40-699E879F68A1 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Is that so? They would have helped contact? If that's so, then TSE has changed their policy on the puppy raiser thing. Of course, with social networking and the like, it is easier and easier for us to do that ourselves, so what the heck. *smile*
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:35:28 -0400
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
> Message-ID:
> <CAF2O2CyMxtW_JTHS8ZzeRgKSUBKUsdPBuv6ye1zo4EWYx2c_0g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This is just what I was told after the fact, but never actually tried
> it. They told me that I could send a letter to a puppy raisor and they
> would pass it on after they determine whether or not the puppy raisor
> wished to be contacted.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 12.03.2012, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is that so? They would have helped contact? If that's so, then TSE has
>> changed their policy on the puppy raiser thing. Of course, with social
>> networking and the like, it is easier and easier for us to do that
>> ourselves, so what the heck. *smile*
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:14:43 +0000 (GMT)
> From: t21114 at optonline.net
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <e6668852319c6.4f5e5933 at optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I know GDF gives ownership. They do ask if you want ownership before you leave the class.
> Marilyn and Anna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RJ Sandefur
> Date: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:42 pm
> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>
>> What is your opinion of a guide dog Schools retaining ownership
>> of the dog after training? I know some schools such as South
>> eastern, and piolet dogs give ownership of the guide dog to the
>> student after training. While others such as GDB retain
>> ownership. Has the NFB made an offical stance concerning this
>> issue? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/t21114%40optonline.net
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:43:21 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <9C387C0059024D38BBD5ABB28C490958 at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Sheila,
> to take this analogy further and relate it to the harness, retaining
> ownership of a harness is like a car dealership saying, "You own the car but
> we own the keys." So, if this were so, I would make a copy of my keys in the
> event the dealership repossesses them. Likewise, I suggest everyone have a
> harness they own in the event the training program repossesses the one they
> issue.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Leigland" <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Thank you marion that is jus what I wanted to know. The buying of a car is
>> a good analafy that I didn't even think about. Now it makes more sense
>> about why ownership still works if assistance is needed. Peace.
>>
>> Sheila Leigland
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:54:01 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <6DABBA29-DB14-4640-B66D-8D9210825ECD at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about? I do not know.
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:14:53 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <001f01cd0095$2c1149b0$8433dd10$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yes, I thought it was a bit strange when Pilot asked me to sign the papers
> for loaning me the leash and harness.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:43 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
> Sheila,
> to take this analogy further and relate it to the harness, retaining
> ownership of a harness is like a car dealership saying, "You own the car but
> we own the keys." So, if this were so, I would make a copy of my keys in the
> event the dealership repossesses them. Likewise, I suggest everyone have a
> harness they own in the event the training program repossesses the one they
> issue.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Leigland" <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Thank you marion that is jus what I wanted to know. The buying of a car is
>
>> a good analafy that I didn't even think about. Now it makes more sense
>> about why ownership still works if assistance is needed. Peace.
>>
>> Sheila Leigland
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:16:28 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <002101cd0095$64741a30$2d5c4e90$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Cindy,
> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
> why they are loaning them out to us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've
> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about?
> I do not know.
> Cindy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:21:43 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <273EF2A0-3385-4007-9BB7-F65183C8694A at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> The issue isn't so much the cost of the equipment, as best as I understand. It's that the equipment has the guide dog school's name on it, and the school doesn't want their name to be associated with, for instance, a dog that they didn't train. This could happen, for instance, if the harness were sold on eBay. I have no opinion on this one way or the other, as there's absolutely no magic in guide dog gear.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:16 PM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cindy,
>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've
>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about?
>> I do not know.
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:24:22 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <B47C6E46-F04D-45ED-8317-67EF0D2D480A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> No, I doubt it. They say they want them back, I think, so that they won't get sold to people who will use them in a phony way, such as putting on their dog to pretend it is a guide.
>
> Cindy
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
>
>> Cindy,
>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've
>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about?
>> I do not know.
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:30:12 -0400
> From: Mariea Harris <mharris1979 at carolina.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
> Message-ID: <4F5E6AE4.7080508 at carolina.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I just returned from The Seeing Eye in October and they never mention
> anything about letting them know that I want to contact the raiser and
> they'll do so and see if they want to keep in touch. I was told I could
> write a letter, leaving out any pertinent info and they'd forward it to
> the raiser. The raiser could respond, but with no pertinent info and the
> school would forward the info onto me. I have several raisers on my FB
> page and they all say they aren't allowed any contact with the person
> who received their dog. They do fill out the puppy report and our
> trainer read them to us during class. You were lucky that TSE did this
> and maybe they will do it more often if students request it. I sure hope
> so.
>
> --
>
>
> Mariea and Valiant
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:53:58 -0600
> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <auto-000072251038 at fe-4.cluster1.bresnan.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi, not a bad idea. I actually thought about doing that when Drake retired in case I needed to take him on public trransportation such as going to the vet's office. I would never have worked my dog injured or sick so I didn't relinquish my harness until after Drake was put down. I did explain why I kept the harness however, and that seemed to be okay.
>
> Sheila Leigland
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:07:46 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <208B8EC32AB847CEA9F0A671C0FCBDFB at margoda7a829ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Cindy, they now retain ownership because peole were selling harnesses on
> ebay. Now, they want us to return them. They used to not care. There are
> security or serial numbers on harnesses now.
>
> Margo andArrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back;
>> I've always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that
>> about? I do not know.
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:24:23 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <894219DF-C793-43F9-9411-70CD8DBFA15A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Oh, well, I have always returned them anyway, but I don't remember that coming up in class. When did you go? I'm sure not questioning you on this. LOL. I don't have any reason to keep the thing. Do they want leashes, too, or just the harness?
>
> Cindy
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>
>> Cindy, they now retain ownership because peole were selling harnesses on ebay. Now, they want us to return them. They used to not care. There are security or serial numbers on harnesses now.
>>
>> Margo andArrow
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>
>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about? I do not know.
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:31:24 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <1789388E14474C918637972326529589 at margoda7a829ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> I found this out in 2009 when I got Arrow. Now, I do have a very old
> harness that I do keep as a backup and they didn't think they wanted that.
> No, just the harness.
>
> margo andArrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Oh, well, I have always returned them anyway, but I don't remember that
>> coming up in class. When did you go? I'm sure not questioning you on this.
>> LOL. I don't have any reason to keep the thing. Do they want leashes, too,
>> or just the harness?
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>
>>> Cindy, they now retain ownership because peole were selling harnesses on
>>> ebay. Now, they want us to return them. They used to not care. There
>>> are security or serial numbers on harnesses now.
>>>
>>> Margo andArrow
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>>>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back;
>>>> I've always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>>>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>>>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of
>>>> my harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that
>>>> about? I do not know.
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:20:32 -0400
> From: Mariea Harris <mharris1979 at carolina.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <4F5E84C0.6000003 at carolina.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> People have been known to put their dog's harness on E-Bay. They also
> use the old harnesses on the dogs in training. I'm thinking that's why
> they want them back. They do have numbers on them to identify them as
> well, so they indeed do own those.
>
> GEB and GDB liked you to give them back, but I never had a chance. Both
> harnesses are in my garage. If I ever have a broken harness, I'd
> consider using one of those until I got a new one from TSE. I did try
> one of the handles from an old harness not too long ago. I have carpal
> tunnel and it was bothering me really bad. It turned out the handle was
> actually too long and made things worse. LOL. So much for my trying to
> fix things. LOL.
>
> --
>
>
> Mariea and Valiant
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:23:58 -0400
> From: Mariea Harris <mharris1979 at carolina.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <4F5E858E.8090701 at carolina.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> TSE does let you keep the leashes. I don't believe they want those back.
> I've got a GDB leash, GEB leash and 3 TSE leashes. LOL. The TSE leashes
> are spares. The GEB leash is for relieving when I'm at home. It hangs on
> the closet door by the front door. The GDB leash is for grooming. The
> loop when made into a long leash fits around the tree outside my front
> door. LOL.
>
> --
>
>
> Mariea and Valiant
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:38:11 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <DC5B792D-A5A9-468F-BF35-669B878BB8EE at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Oh, you know, I think that was the first time I heard about their ownership, and they may have said something about returning the harnesses; I had always done that so I may not have paid attention. When did you get Arrow in 2009?
>
> Maybe I should have E-mailed you off list for that question. I'll do it.
>
> Cindy
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:31 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>
>> I found this out in 2009 when I got Arrow. Now, I do have a very old harness that I do keep as a backup and they didn't think they wanted that. No, just the harness.
>>
>> margo andArrow
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 6:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>
>>> Oh, well, I have always returned them anyway, but I don't remember that coming up in class. When did you go? I'm sure not questioning you on this. LOL. I don't have any reason to keep the thing. Do they want leashes, too, or just the harness?
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy, they now retain ownership because peole were selling harnesses on ebay. Now, they want us to return them. They used to not care. There are security or serial numbers on harnesses now.
>>>>
>>>> Margo andArrow
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about? I do not know.
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:10:01 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <20FEAB69D2064A87AB4E9973571789A8 at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Hannah,
> Well, compared to the 30,000+ it costs to train a guide dog, what's
> another $150 or so?
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Cindy,
>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back;
>> I've
>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that
>> about?
>> I do not know.
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:10:12 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <636FBA20-3C35-471F-8160-467AA2327CEF at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> We were looking up information as to how to license our dogs. Here is something that caught my attention. Can they require this? It doesn't say what they want exactly:
>
> SERVICE ANIMALS Certified service animals qualify for a waiver of the annual
> license fee, however you must submit a license application, proof of service
> certification, rabies vaccination and pay the $4.00 processing fee.
> I believe that they cannot ask for proof of service certification. I suspect I'll pay for a license for him, but I think they can't do this.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:22:30 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] Pet licenses
> Message-ID: <53D04096-6509-49C1-88B9-E387B3AC9554 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The agency that is used for the purpose of licensing the dogs is HTTP://www.westpet.org.
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:50:42 -0400
> From: Ava Foster <avapup.7 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Braille Monitor Article Concerning Fidelco
> Message-ID:
> <CAGTQomKVvUNSn3O3ntiV+JFuCHAGnJQWZ_uBwXqf+wjjKq8T-A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Wow. Just wow. That a guide dog provider in this era would not only
> frankly deceive its students about their ownership of their guides,
> but that a CEO would behave so patronizingly is disturbing. Thank you
> for posting this to the list, Marion. Ava
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:34:01 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <9B9F80EF76D04D1A9D12D9E3ABD5A8F5 at margoda7a829ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Cindy, for Erie County in new York and for Buffalo, well, it's a state
> thing, I submit a license application every year but don't have to pay the
> ten dollars license fee and so we circle guide dog" on Arrow's form. It's
> just once a year and the application's filled out by the license people and
> I just have to sign it. during the years when Arrow or any of my other dogs
> got their rabies vaccinations, we have to include a rabies certificate.
>
> Margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:10 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
>
>
>> We were looking up information as to how to license our dogs. Here is
>> something that caught my attention. Can they require this? It doesn't say
>> what they want exactly:
>>
>> SERVICE ANIMALS Certified service animals qualify for a waiver of the
>> annual
>> license fee, however you must submit a license application, proof of
>> service
>> certification, rabies vaccination and pay the $4.00 processing fee.
>> I believe that they cannot ask for proof of service certification. I
>> suspect I'll pay for a license for him, but I think they can't do this.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:57:12 -0500
> From: "loriandleo" <loriandleo at ohiohills.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New Member
> Message-ID: <015a01cd00be$1c779e40$2bdbe504 at o4r3f1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Sheryl,
>
> You're so welcome. Take care.
>
> Lori and the Gipper
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:58:42 -0500
> From: "loriandleo" <loriandleo at ohiohills.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mya's vet visit.
> Message-ID: <015b01cd00be$1e446f00$2bdbe504 at o4r3f1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You're welcome Rhonda. Keep us posted. Take care.
>
> Lori and the Gipper
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:03:55 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <9955EAE1-40DF-48D2-B96C-E155273C71B5 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> This is likely going to be an unpopular opinion, but there it is.
>
> First, a harness does not confer any special privileges on a dog. A dog is a working guide, regardless of working gear, or it is not a working guide. If you've retired a dog, it isn't a working guide. Unless you pull the dog out of retirement and it resumes its service functions, harness or no harness, you don't have the right to be accompanied by it. Well, I suppose the law says that the dog must be "individually tai trained", so one could argue that the dog still has said training on it, thus it still qualifies as a working guide, even if it's retired. Point is, the harness doesn't confer any privilege on the dog.
>
> When I've retired a dog, if I needed to take him somewhere, like the vet, or even if I wanted to take him somewhere, I went with pet rules. In general, this worked fine, and especially when people had already known us, there was no problem. Our local taxi company even said that taking my retired guide wouldn't be an issue with most drivers, but I'm lucky in that respect, as Erie is very small town that way. Still, it strikes me that trying to pass off your non-working dog as a guide just so you can take him out into public is stretching the intent of the law just a bit.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, not a bad idea. I actually thought about doing that when Drake retired in case I needed to take him on public trransportation such as going to the vet's office. I would never have worked my dog injured or sick so I didn't relinquish my harness until after Drake was put down. I did explain why I kept the harness however, and that seemed to be okay.
>>
>> Sheila Leigland
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:18:33 -0400
> From: Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <4F5EA069.80003 at windstream.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Can someone tell us the schools that have immediate ownership and those
> that have ownership after a year or two and those that retain
> ownership?The survey (can't remember the organization) of all the
> schools was done in 2006 and things have changed.
>
> then there is the issue of ownership if the handler passes on. That dog
> becomes part of the family and the family loses two members at once.
> Not sure I like this in the case of one school if the team has been
> together less than 5 years.
>
> In my research I have found only 2 schools giving full ownership and I
> don''t live in the right states for one of the schools.
> Brenda
>
>
> 3/12/2012 8:46 AM, Cindy Ray wrote:
>> It is a shame to see a pet fat and lazy, or a guide fat and lazy for that matter. If you have a pet, though, nobody takes it away from you. You own it. The school has recourse even if you own the dog; and dogs will be taken away from blind people if it is observed that they are abusing them. It has been done. Also, animal rights advocates will trounce on you all of the time for even using a dog for a guide. If I have a pet dog and can retain ownership of it right off, then the same should be true of my guide dog. Any time a pet or guide or any service animal goes out to an owner, the is potential for abuse. I don't want to see that and it is sad, but the school's retaining ownership of that dog doesn't really solve that issue so much.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bjnite%40windstream.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:28:11 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <06D51D21B6424900B62C7556C3116723 at margoda7a829ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> I also have concerns about putting a harness on a non-working dog.
>
> when I've taken my retired dog along with my working dog somewhere, the
> retired dog did not wear a harness.
>
> margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> This is likely going to be an unpopular opinion, but there it is.
>>
>> First, a harness does not confer any special privileges on a dog. A dog is
>> a working guide, regardless of working gear, or it is not a working guide.
>> If you've retired a dog, it isn't a working guide. Unless you pull the dog
>> out of retirement and it resumes its service functions, harness or no
>> harness, you don't have the right to be accompanied by it. Well, I suppose
>> the law says that the dog must be "individually tai trained", so one could
>> argue that the dog still has said training on it, thus it still qualifies
>> as a working guide, even if it's retired. Point is, the harness doesn't
>> confer any privilege on the dog.
>>
>> When I've retired a dog, if I needed to take him somewhere, like the vet,
>> or even if I wanted to take him somewhere, I went with pet rules. In
>> general, this worked fine, and especially when people had already known
>> us, there was no problem. Our local taxi company even said that taking my
>> retired guide wouldn't be an issue with most drivers, but I'm lucky in
>> that respect, as Erie is very small town that way. Still, it strikes me
>> that trying to pass off your non-working dog as a guide just so you can
>> take him out into public is stretching the intent of the law just a bit.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, not a bad idea. I actually thought about doing that when Drake
>>> retired in case I needed to take him on public trransportation such as
>>> going to the vet's office. I would never have worked my dog injured or
>>> sick so I didn't relinquish my harness until after Drake was put down. I
>>> did explain why I kept the harness however, and that seemed to be okay.
>>>
>>> Sheila Leigland
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:41:40 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <658CD3BD-B4D9-487F-95BD-FCF9DF83A088 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Well, they are asking for proof of certification of service here. YThis is a new venture here as three towns in the county have gone together to try to get licenses collected for pets.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:47:40 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <AC22A16F-D445-45CF-AF4C-288AAA2F75E4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I would never put a harness on a non-working dog if I was taking it somewhere. Even though I get the intent, I wouldn't want to have it construed as deceitful in any way.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:55:13 -0600
> From: "Natalie" <nrorrell at qwest.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a guide dog story sad and sweet
> Message-ID: <00BF9CA088584D5D913C13186A3B56A6 at sansb0623c4f07>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Lea,
> Thanks for posting this awesome story. I'd read it before, and each time
> it's more awesome, representing the dog/human bond.
> Best,
> Nat and Liam Joshua
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lea williams" <leanicole1988 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] a guide dog story sad and sweet
>
>
> I got this from a friend and wanted to share it.
>
> BEST DOG STORY EVER
> Please, This starts out a bit 'wordy,' but finally gets around to the
> meat and the message. Don't skip over any of it because the whole
> story is needed
> to appreciate the end.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> They told me the big black Lab's name was Reggie, as I looked at him
> lying in his pen. The shelter was clean, no-kill, and the people
> really friendly.
> I'd only been in the area for six months, but everywhere I went in the
> small college town, people were welcoming and open. Everyone waves
> when you pass
> them on the street.
>
> But something was still missing as I attempted to settle in to my new
> life here, and I thought a dog couldn't hurt. Give me someone to talk
> to. And I had
> just seen Reggie's advertisement on the local news. The shelter said
> they had received numerous calls right after, but they said the people
> who had come
> down to see him just didn't look like "Lab people," whatever that meant.
> They must've thought I did.
>
> But at first, I thought the shelter had misjudged me in giving me
> Reggie and his things, which consisted of a dog pad, bag of toys
> almost all of which
> were brand new tennis balls, his dishes and a sealed letter from his
> previous owner.
> See, Reggie and I didn't really hit it off when we got home. We
> struggled for two weeks (which is how long the shelter told me to give
> him to adjust to
> his new home).
> Maybe it was the fact that I was trying to adjust, too. Maybe we were
> too much alike. For some reason, his stuff (except for the tennis
> balls --- he wouldn't
> go anywhere without two stuffed in his mouth) got tossed in with all
> of my other unpacked boxes. I guess I didn't really think he'd need
> all his old stuff,
> that I'd get him new things once he settled in. But it became pretty
> clear pretty soon that he wasn't going to.
>
> I tried the normal commands the shelter told me he knew, ones like
> "sit" and "stay" and "come" and "heel," and he'd follow them - when he
> felt like it.
>
> He never really seemed to listen when I called his name --- sure, he'd
> look in my direction after the fourth or fifth time I said it, but
> then he'd just
> go back to doing whatever. When I'd ask again, you could almost see
> him sigh and then grudgingly obey.
>
> This just wasn't going to work. He chewed up a couple of shoes and
> some unpacked boxes. I was a little too stern with him and he resented
> it, I could tell.
> The friction got so bad that I couldn't wait for the two weeks to be
> up, and when it was, I was in ?full-on? search mode for my cell phone
> amid all of
> my unpacked stuff. I remembered leaving it on the stack of boxes for
> the guest room, but I also mumbled, rather cynically, that the "damn
> dog probably
> hid it on me."
>
> Finally, I found it, but before I could punch up the shelter's number,
> I also found his pad and other toys from the shelter. I tossed the pad
> in Reggie's
> direction and he snuffed it and wagged, some of the most enthusiasm
> I'd seen since bringing him home.
> But then I called, "Hey, Reggie, you like that? Come here and I'll
> give you a treat." Instead, he sort of glanced in my direction ? maybe
> "glared" is more
> accurate ? and then gave a discontented sigh and flopped down ... with
> his back to me.
>
> Well, that's not going to do it either, I thought. And I punched the
> shelter phone number. But I hung up when I saw the sealed envelope. I
> had completely
> forgotten about that, too.
> "Okay, Reggie," I said out loud, "let's see if your previous owner has
> any advice."
> ____________ _________ _________ _________
>
> To Whoever Gets My Dog:
> Well, I can't say that I'm happy you're reading this, a letter I told
> the shelter could only be opened by Reggie's new owner. I'm not even
> happy writing
> it. If you're reading this, it means I just got back from my last car
> ride with my Lab after dropping him off at the shelter.
> He knew something was different.
> I have packed up his pad and toys before and set them by the back door
> before a trip, but this time... it's like he knew something was wrong.
> And something is wrong...which is why I have to try to make it right.
>
> So let me tell you about my Lab in the hopes that it will help you
> bond with him and he with you.
>
> First, he loves tennis balls. The more the merrier. Sometimes I think
> he's part squirrel, the way he hordes them. He usually always has two
> in his mouth,
> and he tries to get a third in there. Hasn't done it yet.
> Doesn't matter where you throw them, he'll bound after them, so be
> careful. Don't do it by any roads. I made that mistake once, and it
> almost cost him
> dearly.
>
> Next, commands.
> Maybe the shelter staff already told you, but I'll go over them again:
> Reggie knows the obvious ones ---"sit," "stay," "come," "heel." He
> knows hand signals,
> too:"back" to turn around and go back when you put your hand straight
> up; and "over" if you put your hand out right or left.
> "Shake" for shaking water off, and "paw" for a high-five. He does
> "down" when he feels like lying down --- I bet you could work on that
> with him some more.
> He knows"ball" and "food" and "bone" and "treat" like nobody's business.
>
> I trained Reggie with small food treats. Nothing opens his ears like
> little pieces of hot dog.
>
> Feeding schedule: twice a day, once about seven in the morning, and
> again at six in the evening. Regular store-bought stuff; the shelter
> has the brand.
>
> He's up on his shots. Call the clinic on 9th Street and update his
> info with yours; they'll make sure to send you reminders for when he's
> due. Be forewarned:
> Reggie hates the vet. Good luck getting him in the car. I don't know
> how he knows when it's time to go to the vet, but he knows.
>
> Finally, give him some time. I've never been married, so it's only
> been Reggie and me for his whole life. He's gone everywhere with me,
> so please include
> him on your daily car rides if you can. He sits well in the backseat,
> and he doesn't bark or complain.
>
> He just loves to be around people and me most especially. Which means
> that this transition is going to be hard, with him going to live with
> someone new.
> And that's why I need to share one more bit of info with you....
>
> His name's not Reggie.
>
> I don't know what made me do it, but when I dropped him off at the
> shelter, I told them his name was Reggie.
> He's a smart dog, he'll get used to it and will respond to it, of that
> I have no doubt. But I just couldn't bear to give them his real name.
> For me to
> do that, it seemed so final, that handing him over to the shelter was
> as good as me admitting that I'd never see him again. And if I end up
> coming back,
> getting him, and tearing up this letter, it means everything's fine.
> But if someone else is reading it, well ... well it means that his new
> owner should know his real name. It'll help you bond with him. Who
> knows, maybe
> you'll even notice a change in his demeanor if he's been giving you
> problems.
>
> His real name is "Tank.?
>
> Because, that is what I drive.
>
> Again, if you're reading this and you're from the area, maybe my name
> has been on the news. I told the shelter that they couldn't make
> "Reggie" available
> for adoption until they received word from my company commander.
> You see, my parents are gone, I have no siblings, no one I could've
> left Tank with ... and it was my only real request of the Army upon my
> deployment to
> Iraq , that they make one phone call the shelter ... in the "event"
> ... to tell them that Tank could be put up for adoption.
> Luckily, my colonel is a dog-guy, too, and he knew where my platoon
> was headed. He said he'd do it personally. And if you're reading this,
> then he made
> good on his word.
>
> Well, this letter is getting downright depressing, even though,
> frankly, I'm just writing it for my dog. I couldn't imagine if I was
> writing it for a wife
> and kids and family .... but still, Tank has been my family for the
> last six years, almost as long as the Army has been my family.
>
> And now I hope and pray that you make him part of your family, too,
> and that he will adjust and come to love you the same way he loved me.
> That unconditional
> love from a dog is what I take with me to Iraq as an inspiration to do
> something selfless, to protect innocent people from those who would do
> terrible
> things ... and to keep those terrible people from coming to the U.S.
> If I have to give up Tank in order to do it, I am glad to have done
> so. He is my example
> of service and of love.
> I hope I honored him by my service to my country and comrades.
>
> All right, that's enough.
> I deploy this evening and have to drop this letter off at the shelter.
> I don't think I'll say another good-bye to Tank, though. I cried too
> much the first
> time. Maybe I'll peek in on him and see if he finally got that third
> tennis ball in his mouth.
>
> Good luck with Tank. Give him a good home, and give him an extra kiss
> goodnight ? every night ? from me.
>
> Thank you,
> Paul Mallory
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _______
>
> I folded the letter and slipped it back in the envelope. Sure, I had
> heard of Paul Mallory, everyone in town knew him, even new people like
> me. Local kid,
> killed in Iraq a few months ago and posthumously earning the Silver
> Star when he gave his life to save three buddies. Flags had been at
> half-mast all summer.
>
> I leaned forward in my chair and rested my elbows on my knees, staring
> at the dog. "Hey, Tank," I said quietly.
>
> The dog's head whipped up, his ears cocked and his eyes bright.
>
> "Come here boy."
>
> He was instantly on his feet, his nails clicking on the hardwood
> floor. He sat in front of me, his head tilted, searching for the name
> he hadn't heard
> in months.
>
> "Tank," I whispered. His tail swished.
>
> I kept whispering his name, over and over, and each time, his ears
> lowered, his eyes softened, and his posture relaxed as a wave of
> contentment just seemed
> to flood him. I stroked his ears, rubbed his shoulders, buried my face
> into his scruff and hugged him.
>
> "It's me now, Tank, just you and me. Your old pal gave you to me."
> Tank reached up and licked my cheek. "So what do ya say we play some ball?"
> His ears perked again. "Yeah? Ball? You like that? Ball?" Tank tore
> from my hands and disappeared into the next room.
>
> And when he came back, he had three tennis balls in his mouth.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
> Phone;
> 704-732-4470
> Skipe;
> Lea.williams738
> Facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
> Twitter
> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nrorrell%40qwest.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:56:33 -0400
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <3AD2609F0CBB47C289B1A34A3916FB75 at margoda7a829ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Okay, what does your state law say? what I'm getting is that they may be
> trying to use your state law. Show them the ADA.
>
> Margo andArrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
>
>
>> Well, they are asking for proof of certification of service here. YThis is
>> a new venture here as three towns in the county have gone together to try
>> to get licenses collected for pets.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 40
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:59:11 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <62B03EC2-813A-4A76-A86F-CF9DA96AD1B9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'll have to look at that.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 41
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:03:59 -0500
> From: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement
> Message-ID: <78252EDD-2925-43D1-80C9-38D5E6A96272 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I guess I have a different view of it. I've never had a dog who has
> simply "retired" where it is black or white. I have a retired dog,
> she still loves to work the occasional route. She can only work for a
> few blocks, but she is actively working, looks forward to it, and is
> safe.
>
> Both her regular vet and her medical specialists have encouraged me to
> let her work within her limits. This is not "passing my pet off."
>
> Just because my dog can no longer walk two miles and work all day does
> not mean they can never work again. If they want to work, and if they
> can do so safely, I don't see a reason not to let them.
>
>
> I do think that if the dog clearly does not want to work, or if they
> have medical issues prohibiting them from working, then they should
> not. But I can only make judgements about my own dogs.
>
>
> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches:
> Bristol, Mill'E, Laveau, Baylee,!
>
> "Life would be so much easier if we just had the source code.
> http://pawpower4me.blogspot.com
> pawpower4me at gmail.com
> AIM: brissysgirl
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 42
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:39:19 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement
> Message-ID: <44930031-9CCA-484D-94AB-FB4638BB461D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Rox, I think that the discussion had to do with taking your dog to the vet after it retired or some such place and putting the harness on it, and you would also be working your dog. I may be mistaken about this, but that is what the issue is.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 43
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:57:19 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement
> Message-ID: <699A657E-706B-4EE1-AD77-8125903708EB at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Rox'e,
>
> We're not in disagreement here.
>
> Sounds like your dogs are at best semi-retired. I have no issue with that.
>
> Where I would take issue is when someone takes a dog that is clearly retired, clearly not working at all, just "along for the ride", so to speak. Because old dog can't work, but doesn't like to be home alone, so we'll just pretend that he's still a guide dog, put a harness on, and go.
>
> I know of a situation where someone actually took two "guide dogs" along, one working, one retired, not working, and in harness. Clearly, this is stretching the intent of access laws. Your situation clearly is not.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 10:03 PM, The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I have a different view of it. I've never had a dog who has simply "retired" where it is black or white. I have a retired dog, she still loves to work the occasional route. She can only work for a few blocks, but she is actively working, looks forward to it, and is safe.
>>
>> Both her regular vet and her medical specialists have encouraged me to let her work within her limits. This is not "passing my pet off."
>>
>> Just because my dog can no longer walk two miles and work all day does not mean they can never work again. If they want to work, and if they can do so safely, I don't see a reason not to let them.
>>
>>
>> I do think that if the dog clearly does not want to work, or if they have medical issues prohibiting them from working, then they should not. But I can only make judgements about my own dogs.
>>
>>
>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches:
>> Bristol, Mill'E, Laveau, Baylee,!
>>
>> "Life would be so much easier if we just had the source code.
>> http://pawpower4me.blogspot.com
>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>> AIM: brissysgirl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 44
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:01:50 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <FF95D3EC1C524433B38A476A4C03856B at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Buddy,
> then, perhaps, the training programs should consider not branding the
> gear. I am still using one of the sport harnesses that Julie made for me
> several years ago!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The issue isn't so much the cost of the equipment, as best as I
>> understand. It's that the equipment has the guide dog school's name on it,
>> and the school doesn't want their name to be associated with, for
>> instance, a dog that they didn't train. This could happen, for instance,
>> if the harness were sold on eBay. I have no opinion on this one way or the
>> other, as there's absolutely no magic in guide dog gear.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:16 PM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cindy,
>>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
>>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back;
>>> I've
>>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of
>>> my
>>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that
>>> about?
>>> I do not know.
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 45
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:10:20 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> Message-ID: <8A8859E6-0FCF-4FD2-96B8-F76783FEC7D7 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Marion,
>
> I have two harnesses, one from Julie and one from Bob and Rox'e. Love 'em both. In fact, I use the Laveau style harness with Leno all the time rather than the school issued one.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 11:01 PM, "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Buddy,
>> then, perhaps, the training programs should consider not branding the gear. I am still using one of the sport harnesses that Julie made for me several years ago!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The issue isn't so much the cost of the equipment, as best as I understand. It's that the equipment has the guide dog school's name on it, and the school doesn't want their name to be associated with, for instance, a dog that they didn't train. This could happen, for instance, if the harness were sold on eBay. I have no opinion on this one way or the other, as there's absolutely no magic in guide dog gear.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:16 PM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy,
>>>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and that's
>>>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>>>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; I've
>>>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>>>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog and
>>>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of my
>>>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that about?
>>>> I do not know.
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 46
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:55:22 -0400
> From: Ava Foster <avapup.7 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was: Ownership of guide dog. is: retirement
> Message-ID:
> <CAGTQomL1-xS7iMNzqmrvtiLWYF+qA4Az1fNBh2C6qs33MrWWQQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The only reason my first guide, Jet, had to have an immediate + full
> retirement is because she developed hormone-related incontinence ( the
> kind common to spayed female dogs ), and the herbal remedy ( I tried
> several ) stopped working; she was deathly allergic to Proin, and
> barely could tolerate a very small dose of DES, so those werent so
> helpful. So she had to stop working in public very suddenly,
> unfortunately. But she lived a happy retirement at home for years! Ava
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 47
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:11:27 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
> Message-ID: <003601cd00cf$5dcf0110$196d0330$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I got Princess licensed a month or so back and it was totally free because
> she had her harness on; I brought her rabies paper with me as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:10 PM
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> Subject: [nagdu] Licensing Your Dog
>
> We were looking up information as to how to license our dogs. Here is
> something that caught my attention. Can they require this? It doesn't say
> what they want exactly:
>
> SERVICE ANIMALS Certified service animals qualify for a waiver of the annual
> license fee, however you must submit a license application, proof of service
> certification, rabies vaccination and pay the $4.00 processing fee.
> I believe that they cannot ask for proof of service certification. I suspect
> I'll pay for a license for him, but I think they can't do this.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 48
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:23:50 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <008801cd00d1$18c15260$4a43f720$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello all,
> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
> Thanks, Hanah
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 49
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:29:54 -0400
> From: "Sean Moore " <sean.moore at mediacombb.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <2A44292FDD0B4F3693174DD52F86D618 at SeanPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I have
> one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The Owner is behind
> I think.
>
> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Hello all,
> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
> Thanks, Hanah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 50
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:36:09 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <008a01cd00d2$d1b33fd0$7519bf70$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Sean,
> Is it very light?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sean Moore
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:30 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I have
> one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The Owner is behind
> I think.
>
> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Hello all,
> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
> Thanks, Hanah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 51
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:52:05 -0400
> From: "Sean Moore " <sean.moore at mediacombb.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <0FDAE0C58DCD4E0E941A55445B2BBE76 at SeanPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> very light. no metal in it, but say for like 4 screws for things that hold
> the handle and belt for the belly strap.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:36 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Sean,
> Is it very light?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sean Moore
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:30 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I have
> one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The Owner is behind
> I think.
>
> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Hello all,
> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
> Thanks, Hanah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 52
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:01:26 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <000301cd00d6$597e6770$0c7b3650$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you Sean. I will check them out. I know a couple of people who are GDB
> graduates.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sean Moore
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> very light. no metal in it, but say for like 4 screws for things that hold
> the handle and belt for the belly strap.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:36 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Sean,
> Is it very light?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sean Moore
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:30 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I have
> one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The Owner is behind
> I think.
>
> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Hello all,
> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
> Thanks, Hanah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
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> et
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>
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> m
>
>
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> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 53
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 01:06:30 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <F0598491-4F41-44DB-B512-47D2FB7F1E9D at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Also,
> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>
> That's where you'd get the nylon harnesses like we've been sort of talking about. Love mine. Very light, made of nylon webbing, and the handle's PVC. Very durable, too, in fashionable colors, and machine washable.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:01 AM, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Sean. I will check them out. I know a couple of people who are GDB
>> graduates.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Sean Moore
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:52 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> very light. no metal in it, but say for like 4 screws for things that hold
>> the handle and belt for the belly strap.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hannah Chadwick
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:36 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> Sean,
>> Is it very light?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Sean Moore
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:30 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I have
>> one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The Owner is behind
>> I think.
>>
>> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hannah Chadwick
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> Hello all,
>> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
>> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
>> Thanks, Hanah
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.n
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediacombb.n
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 54
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:09:45 -0700
> From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
> Message-ID: <000701cd00d7$83756550$8a602ff0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you. I will look in to both!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:06 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>
> Also,
> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>
> That's where you'd get the nylon harnesses like we've been sort of talking
> about. Love mine. Very light, made of nylon webbing, and the handle's PVC.
> Very durable, too, in fashionable colors, and machine washable.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:01 AM, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Sean. I will check them out. I know a couple of people who
>> are GDB graduates.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sean Moore
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:52 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> very light. no metal in it, but say for like 4 screws for things that
>> hold the handle and belt for the belly strap.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hannah Chadwick
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:36 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> Sean,
>> Is it very light?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sean Moore
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:30 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> The Wag Inc in Canada makes a harness similar to the one used GDB. I
>> have one its very nice, just wish I had the handle to use it. The
>> Owner is behind I think.
>>
>> http://thewagcanada.com/guide_service_dogs_1.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hannah Chadwick
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:23 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] harnesses
>>
>> Hello all,
>> While we're on the subject of harnesses, I was wondering where I can
>> purchase an additional one? I want something very light-weight.
>> Thanks, Hanah
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediac
>> ombb.n
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gm
>> ail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sean.moore%40mediac
>> ombb.n
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gm
>> ail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu:
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>> e
>
>
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> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of nagdu Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
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