[nagdu] Ownership of guide dog

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Wed Mar 14 18:35:52 UTC 2012 

What do you mean by the contracts being a "string" to real ownership?  
Doesn't it depend on what is in the contract?  I mean all of my dogs 
have come from one rescue or another and I've had to sign agreements or 
contracts with every one of them. I still have complete ownership though.

Julie


On 3/14/2012 1:17 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Also, the schools need to get rid of the contracts that must be signed 
> before getting the dogs.  I find the contracts to be as offensive as 
> the school retaining ownership.  The contracts are a "string" to real 
> ownership.
>
> I think Seeing Eye is the only school that I know of that has 
> absolutely NO strings attached to ownership and is the only school 
> that I know that has true ownership of the dog.  Correct me if I'm 
> wrong on this.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> Hi Marion and list
>> I look forward to the completion of the NAGDU survey.  I never would 
>> have considered ownership an important issue until I started reading 
>> posts from this list.  Now, my first choices will be only 
>> full-ownership schools.  If I really find I like a school with a one 
>> or two year *probation* I may consider them, but I will focus on 
>> full-ownership schools.
>>
>> I have one question - I thought GDF had something where if the 
>> handler dies within 5 years the dog must be returned to the school.  
>> If this is true, this is not full ownership.  In this case, the 
>> family loses 2 members at once.  I'm not sure If I read this on the 
>> NAGDU list via a post or actually on GDF's web site.  I hope NAGDU 
>> finds out what the true story is on this.
>>
>> Brenda
>>
>> On 3/13/2012 7:47 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>>> Brenda,
>>>    NAGDU is in the process of conducting a survey of guide dog 
>>> training programs and their policies. To the best of my knowledge, 
>>> Guide Dogs of America (GDA), Guide Dog Foundation (GDF), 
>>> Southeastern Guide dogs, and The Seeing Eye are the only programs 
>>> that transfer ownership upon completion of training. GDF has the 
>>> option of retaining ownership for a specified period of time in 
>>> cases in which they are unsure if the match will work out. Their 
>>> approach is one of having a trial period before making the decision. 
>>> This is not their usual policy; rather an option to give the 
>>> consumer the chance to see if it will work out. If there are any 
>>> others, please let me know and, if possible, provide the ownership 
>>> agreement.
>>>    I am of the opinion that retaining ownership of a dog for any 
>>> period of time after completion of training as a matter of policy is 
>>> founded in paternalism. It sends a message that the program has the 
>>> belief blind people, as a group, must prove themselves worthy and 
>>> competent of this privilege. The premise is wrong and offensive to 
>>> me as a blind person. NAGDU is urging all training programs to 
>>> transfer real ownership to the consumer upon completion of training 
>>> and to implement due process policies for the repossession of the 
>>> dog. to the best of my knowledge, none of the programs who retain 
>>> ownership have any published due process for this purpose. Again, if 
>>> my assertion is incorrect, please provide me with evidence of this.
>>>
>>> fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can someone tell us the schools that have immediate ownership and 
>>>> those that have ownership after a year or two and those that retain 
>>>> ownership?The survey (can't remember the organization) of all the 
>>>> schools was done in 2006 and things have changed.
>>>>
>>>> then there is the issue of ownership if the handler passes on.  
>>>> That dog becomes part of the family and the family loses two 
>>>> members at once. Not sure I like this in the case of one school if 
>>>> the team has been together less than 5 years.
>>>>
>>>> In my research I have found only 2 schools giving full ownership 
>>>> and I don''t live in the right states for one of the schools.
>>>> Brenda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3/12/2012 8:46 AM, Cindy Ray wrote:
>>>>> It is a shame to see a pet fat and lazy, or a guide fat and lazy 
>>>>> for that matter. If you have a pet, though, nobody takes it away 
>>>>> from you. You own it. The school has recourse even if you own the 
>>>>> dog; and dogs will be taken away from blind people if it is 
>>>>> observed that they are abusing them. It has been done. Also, 
>>>>> animal rights advocates will trounce on you all of the time for 
>>>>> even using a dog for a guide. If I have a pet dog and can retain 
>>>>> ownership of it right off, then the same should be true of my 
>>>>> guide dog. Any time a pet or guide or any service animal goes out 
>>>>> to an owner, the is potential for abuse. I don't want to see that 
>>>>> and it is sad, but the school's retaining ownership of that dog 
>>>>> doesn't really solve that issue so much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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