[nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Wed Mar 14 19:26:12 UTC 2012
Okay, I am confused. You gave your dog to a friend to have as a pet, right?
And then she used the harness on him/her?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
> In the past, TSE has had problems with finding their harnesses being sold
> on eBay to who knows. All the schools have their name stamped on the
> backstrap of the harness and people can see this. GDB actually has a
> cross plate on the handle that has the school's name and logo on it.
>
> I have no problem in returning the harness to the school if you no longer
> have the dog or a current dog from the same school. I have kept Jacob's
> harness as a spare one to use in rainy weather. Seeing Eye knows I have
> it and they told me that it was OK to have one of their harnesses as long
> as I had a dog from their school. Also, you can buy extra harnesses and
> such from them and many of the other schools won't even allow their
> graduateas to purchase a spare! That means that if something happens to
> your dog's harness, you are stuck heeling the dog while you use a cane
> until the school can mail or bring you a new one. Totally unacceptable!
> Yeah, like you getting only one set of car keys and if they got lost or
> stolen, you can't drive the car until the company gets new keys to you -
> unacceptable!
>
> As far as harming the school's reputation if a harness gets into the wrong
> hands, it can happen. Suppose a person gets a hold of a TSE harness and
> puts it on a dog not trained to be a guide. That person gets hit by a car
> and the rescue people see the harness that says "The Seeing Eye" on the
> backstrap of the harness. If that rescue person has never seen a guide
> dog, they may think TSE does a lousey job of training. This scenerario
> can be kind of far fetched, but it could happen. The other reason - and
> more like it - is that the schools use old harnesses for training the dogs
> before wwe get them and a new harness to go with the dog. This does save
> money for the school because a good harness is expensive to make.
>
> We can keep the collars and leashes as a memento of past dogs. I still
> have a fur saver one that I got with a dog I got years ago. I know of a
> school that doesn't even allow one to keep these items and I think that's
> terrible. Interestingly, J&J Dog Supply Wholesalers sells a "service dog
> leash" that is IDENTICAL to the one used by GDB - I have one.
>
> This is all just my own opinion and I do see the potential of paternalism
> in the whole issue of the schools retaining ownership of equipment. This
> along with contracts. I got burned by both issues. Short version - I
> retired a dog and gave it to a friend. She had a guide dog from the same
> school (not TSE) and then sent that dog back sometime after getting my
> retired dog and moving out of state. She kept the harness for her
> sent-back dog. I sent back my harness to the school. Later, after I had
> a dog friom another school and healed from an injury (about a year later)
> I reapplied to the school for a new dog. They denied me for "violating my
> contract" and I supposedly gave the woman my harness to use the dog with.
> She actually used the one she kept on my retired dog. But I got blamed
> for this. After this, I applied to Seeing Eye and got a dog from there
> and I will NOT go to another school that has a contract or any
> paternalistic rules or policies - EVER AGAIN!
>
> I'm not going to trash the school and my experience with it was very
> unfavorable and I will never go back there. They do train good dogs and I
> know folks here with dogs from there. The dogs are good and the people
> are happy and that's fine. I know that I felt very humiliated and angry
> at the paternalistic manner in which I was treated and I wish all the
> schools were like TSE. TSE's policies have been in place for over 80
> years and they work!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> You have a very good point Rebecca. For my pet dogs, I keep their collar
>> with all the rabies and yearly license tags.
>> brenda
>>
>> On 3/13/2012 8:38 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>>> While I understand this to some extent, I'd like to know if this has
>>> happened and any real impact it had on the schools.
>>> We found a picture of me hugging my first guide dog. I'm smiling and
>>> it's Christmas. We know because the tree is also in the picture. It's a
>>> great picture.
>>> When we found it, a flood of emotions came back, and I literally sat
>>> down on the floor and cried.
>>>
>>> Both my dogs are gone now. I deeply regret not keeping their harnesses
>>> and leashes, as they are objects I can touch, and were so important.
>>> This is especially true as my daughter has begun to want me to tell her
>>> about each dog.
>>>
>>> The picture is now framed and on our wall. My husband was able to get
>>> the collar of my first dog from the family who adopted her, and we have
>>> that hung up too.
>>>
>>> I do wish I'd kept both harness and leash combos.
>>>
>>> I understand the schools' point of view. I used to agree with it. I
>>> don't anymore.
>>>
>>> I have never heard of a school suffering negative impact from someone
>>> using a harness or leash that they shouldn't. I have to wonder if the
>>> schools have thought of the emotional impact of returning the harnesses
>>> and leashes.
>>> I suspect they have not.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:24 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>> No, I doubt it. They say they want them back, I think, so that they
>>> won't get sold to people who will use them in a phony way, such as
>>> putting on their dog to pretend it is a guide.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy,
>>>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and
>>>> that's
>>>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>>>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back;
>>>> I've
>>>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>>>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog
>>>> and
>>>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of
>>>> my
>>>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that
>>>> about?
>>>> I do not know.
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
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