[nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training

Thu Mar 22 13:44:44 UTC 2012

Julie,
    When I was doing my initial training back in the dark ages, I was told 
that I should lead with my right foot to avoid stepping on the dog by 
leading with the left. At least that is the way I remember it! (grin)

Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training


> Hello all!
>
> I, too, use my right foot to step with first.  It feels more natural and 
> stable to me.  I'm wondering though, is there some advantage or reason 
> that some programs teach the left foot first and some the right?  I mean I 
> chose the right foot first approach due to personal preference, but I'm 
> wondering if there is some more scientific reasons for the foot used to 
> lead with.  Does it keep you lined up better?  Does it provide a clearer 
> cue to the dog?
>
> If it makes any difference, I also use my right foot to start out on flat 
> surfaces. I've always done this, even before my foot injury.   Now there's 
> no way I could use the left to lead with because I can't keep myself 
> steady on the right very well, especially going down stairs.
>
> And out of curiosity, when a dog is trained to guide on the right is the 
> footwork then the mirror image of whatever the standard is at that given 
> program?
>
> I tried the left foot approach for a while and it didn't feel right.  I 
> suppose the same is true for people who learn it that way first and then 
> try to change.
>
> It's interesting to me though.
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/21/2012 6:53 PM, Natalie wrote:
>> Hi Jenine,
>> GDF is not much different from GDA in the find command as well as the 
>> stepping off with the right foot from a curb, using the left foot as a 
>> steadying folcrum.  Liam and I were trained with that method, and I love 
>> it. Sometimes I revert back to the left-step method, but like the right 
>> one better.
>> Best,
>> Nat and Liam Joshua
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:48 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] GDF training
>>
>>
>>> Thank you all for your interest in how GDF's training is slightly 
>>> different
>>> from that at other schools. As always the disclaimer applies that 
>>> everyone's
>>> mileage may vary on this but these have been my experiences as a 
>>> graduate
>>> since 1990 and staff member since 2008.
>>>
>>> Back in 1990 when I first went to GDF, I knew a bit about having a guide
>>> dog. I'd had 2 already from another school. I also knew that dogs could 
>>> do
>>> more than what that school told me they could but I had no idea how to 
>>> get a
>>> dog to the point of being able to do all those extra things.
>>>
>>> Needless to say, I was amazed when taught at GDF that I was indeed a dog
>>> handler and had the knowledge and power to teach my dog additional 
>>> things.
>>> This was back before clickers and food rewards.
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong at all with using those training techniques but I was 
>>> taught,
>>> and GDf still does teach people, how to teach my dog to find things for 
>>> me
>>> without using a clicker or food. It was my job to retain the training
>>> techniques.
>>>
>>> My first instructor told me that my dog would do as much or as little as 
>>> I
>>> expected of her as long as she understood those expectations.
>>>
>>> At that time during our training, we learned how to show the dogs the
>>> difference between a flight of stairs going up or down. I could then say 
>>> to
>>> my GDF dog, "Find steps up." In a staircase and he or she would choose 
>>> the
>>> correct flight of stairs. Same with escalators.
>>>
>>> This has been dropped from most classes now as people just weren't using 
>>> it,
>>> but it's something I work with each of my dogs during class to master.
>>>
>>> The greatest difference I saw back in the '90's with my GDF dogs that
>>> continues to this day is the use of the "find command". More schools are
>>> indeed using this command in many ways but it's been at GDF for much 
>>> longer
>>> than I've been associated with them.
>>>
>>> During class at the Smithtown facility, you are expected to have your 
>>> dog
>>> find your seat in the dining room each day, an empty seat in the lecture
>>> rooms, your own room, doors, the training vans, the trash cans at the 
>>> relief
>>> area and anything else you want him or her to find for you. I teach my 
>>> dogs
>>> to find the Coke machine right away. <grin>
>>>
>>> All of this is done without clickers or food or other external devices. 
>>> The
>>> dogs work for praise.
>>>
>>> Yes, we do use clickers in some phases of training but not during formal
>>> class and wean the dogs off them quickly. We do use food and suggest its 
>>> use
>>> in problem solving but we don't expect you to carry around a treat pouch 
>>> to
>>> get your dog to work.
>>>
>>> Some of the things people from other schools find challenging about 
>>> class,
>>> and I'm speaking here of class in our facility, include the footwork. We
>>> have you step off with your right foot, using your left leg as a fulcrum 
>>> to
>>> steady yourself.
>>>
>>> I had to work to overcome my original training of investigating the curb
>>> with my right foot then stepping off with the left. This often found me
>>> losing my balance and stumbling off the curb onto my dog. I've never 
>>> done
>>> that starting with the right foot.
>>>
>>> Some people will note that their dogs don't care which foot they start 
>>> off
>>> on and the dog adjusts. Some dogs do. Others struggle with it. I'm told
>>> often by grads and observers that our dogs watch the handler's feet for
>>> position and any uncertainty and correct their guiding accordingly.
>>>
>>> We also do some of the turns a bit differently. I'm struggling here to
>>> recall what was done in my last class regarding left turns as I do them 
>>> the
>>> original way I was taught at GDF. This involves coming to a corner and
>>> before giving the "left" command, turning my body 90 degrees to face 
>>> left,
>>> trying not to twist the handle of course. My knees are against my dog's
>>> side. Then I give the "left" turn command and my dog has space to back 
>>> up
>>> around any obstacles like shrubbery or poles at the corner.
>>>
>>> The right turn command also is a tad different from what I was used to
>>> before. It involves taking a step back with the right foot then putting 
>>> your
>>> weight on that foot and moving the left one back as well to give the dog
>>> space to make the turn.
>>>
>>> In my early days at GDF we used a lot of hand signals. Those were 
>>> dropped by
>>> Mike Sergeant but are being reinstituted. Some people choose to use them 
>>> and
>>> some do not. I can't live without them. The thought is that using hand
>>> signals does alert your dog to focus more on your body movements for
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> The final thing that is different about GDF that is probably the 
>>> toughest
>>> thing to learn is leash guiding. Yes we teach it and yes we teach it in 
>>> a
>>> very specific way to stay safe.
>>>
>>> Do many dogs guide on leash? Sure they do but can they do so in 
>>> Manhattan?
>>> Our dogs have.
>>>
>>> That said, we have drastically revised our leash guiding instructions 
>>> due to
>>> the increasing traffic threat out there. Distracted drivers don't give 
>>> dogs
>>> enough time to react when leash guiding so we no longer recommend using
>>> leash guiding for street work. It can be used indoors, in familiar areas
>>> outside without traffic but isn't recommended for street crossing any
>>> longer.
>>>
>>> The distance between the dog's head and shoulders and your body is
>>> significantly shorter when leash guiding, giving less reaction time. 
>>> Your
>>> hand should be in a specific position on the leash with a specific 
>>> length of
>>> leash between you and the dog. It's not as easy as it sounds.
>>>
>>> I can imagine some of you saying "that's not really very different from 
>>> my
>>> school."
>>>
>>> It may not be now as many schools have picked up on some of our methods.
>>> Some instructors still get into friendly but heated discussions with me
>>> about why the "Find" command is impossible and often misused. My 
>>> response is
>>> to ask if those misusing the command are from schools who teach it 
>>> during
>>> class thoroughly such as Southeastern and GDF. The answer, a sheepish 
>>> no.
>>>
>>> When teaching your dog to find something, you're also paying attention 
>>> to
>>> the dog's signals when it's not there. You also are a partner in helping 
>>> to
>>> find it, not just giving a command and hanging on.
>>>
>>> I'll end this message with a situation that always gets me. I've even 
>>> caught
>>> our grads doing it. Them I can chide, in a friendly way of course.
>>>
>>> We're in a room, say at a convention, and someone comes up and asks how 
>>> to
>>> get out of the room.
>>>
>>> My thought, "Tell your dog to 'find outside'. Or whatever the command is 
>>> you
>>> use to find a doorway. Your dog can do these things. It's up to you to
>>> practice and keep him sharp. It's also up to you to use your knowledge 
>>> of
>>> orientation to give him clues. That's what GDF taught me. Hope this 
>>> helps.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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