[nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Thu Mar 22 15:00:03 UTC 2012 

I usually use the right foot but sometimes when most convenient wil use the 
other.  Adaptibility, you know!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training


> Julie,
>    When I was doing my initial training back in the dark ages, I was told 
> that I should lead with my right foot to avoid stepping on the dog by 
> leading with the left. At least that is the way I remember it! (grin)
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training
>
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I, too, use my right foot to step with first.  It feels more natural and 
>> stable to me.  I'm wondering though, is there some advantage or reason 
>> that some programs teach the left foot first and some the right?  I mean 
>> I chose the right foot first approach due to personal preference, but I'm 
>> wondering if there is some more scientific reasons for the foot used to 
>> lead with.  Does it keep you lined up better?  Does it provide a clearer 
>> cue to the dog?
>>
>> If it makes any difference, I also use my right foot to start out on flat 
>> surfaces. I've always done this, even before my foot injury.   Now 
>> there's no way I could use the left to lead with because I can't keep 
>> myself steady on the right very well, especially going down stairs.
>>
>> And out of curiosity, when a dog is trained to guide on the right is the 
>> footwork then the mirror image of whatever the standard is at that given 
>> program?
>>
>> I tried the left foot approach for a while and it didn't feel right.  I 
>> suppose the same is true for people who learn it that way first and then 
>> try to change.
>>
>> It's interesting to me though.
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/21/2012 6:53 PM, Natalie wrote:
>>> Hi Jenine,
>>> GDF is not much different from GDA in the find command as well as the 
>>> stepping off with the right foot from a curb, using the left foot as a 
>>> steadying folcrum.  Liam and I were trained with that method, and I love 
>>> it. Sometimes I revert back to the left-step method, but like the right 
>>> one better.
>>> Best,
>>> Nat and Liam Joshua
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenine Stanley" 
>>> <jeninems at wowway.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:48 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] GDF training
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you all for your interest in how GDF's training is slightly 
>>>> different
>>>> from that at other schools. As always the disclaimer applies that 
>>>> everyone's
>>>> mileage may vary on this but these have been my experiences as a 
>>>> graduate
>>>> since 1990 and staff member since 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Back in 1990 when I first went to GDF, I knew a bit about having a 
>>>> guide
>>>> dog. I'd had 2 already from another school. I also knew that dogs could 
>>>> do
>>>> more than what that school told me they could but I had no idea how to 
>>>> get a
>>>> dog to the point of being able to do all those extra things.
>>>>
>>>> Needless to say, I was amazed when taught at GDF that I was indeed a 
>>>> dog
>>>> handler and had the knowledge and power to teach my dog additional 
>>>> things.
>>>> This was back before clickers and food rewards.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing wrong at all with using those training techniques but I was 
>>>> taught,
>>>> and GDf still does teach people, how to teach my dog to find things for 
>>>> me
>>>> without using a clicker or food. It was my job to retain the training
>>>> techniques.
>>>>
>>>> My first instructor told me that my dog would do as much or as little 
>>>> as I
>>>> expected of her as long as she understood those expectations.
>>>>
>>>> At that time during our training, we learned how to show the dogs the
>>>> difference between a flight of stairs going up or down. I could then 
>>>> say to
>>>> my GDF dog, "Find steps up." In a staircase and he or she would choose 
>>>> the
>>>> correct flight of stairs. Same with escalators.
>>>>
>>>> This has been dropped from most classes now as people just weren't 
>>>> using it,
>>>> but it's something I work with each of my dogs during class to master.
>>>>
>>>> The greatest difference I saw back in the '90's with my GDF dogs that
>>>> continues to this day is the use of the "find command". More schools 
>>>> are
>>>> indeed using this command in many ways but it's been at GDF for much 
>>>> longer
>>>> than I've been associated with them.
>>>>
>>>> During class at the Smithtown facility, you are expected to have your 
>>>> dog
>>>> find your seat in the dining room each day, an empty seat in the 
>>>> lecture
>>>> rooms, your own room, doors, the training vans, the trash cans at the 
>>>> relief
>>>> area and anything else you want him or her to find for you. I teach my 
>>>> dogs
>>>> to find the Coke machine right away. <grin>
>>>>
>>>> All of this is done without clickers or food or other external devices. 
>>>> The
>>>> dogs work for praise.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we do use clickers in some phases of training but not during 
>>>> formal
>>>> class and wean the dogs off them quickly. We do use food and suggest 
>>>> its use
>>>> in problem solving but we don't expect you to carry around a treat 
>>>> pouch to
>>>> get your dog to work.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the things people from other schools find challenging about 
>>>> class,
>>>> and I'm speaking here of class in our facility, include the footwork. 
>>>> We
>>>> have you step off with your right foot, using your left leg as a 
>>>> fulcrum to
>>>> steady yourself.
>>>>
>>>> I had to work to overcome my original training of investigating the 
>>>> curb
>>>> with my right foot then stepping off with the left. This often found me
>>>> losing my balance and stumbling off the curb onto my dog. I've never 
>>>> done
>>>> that starting with the right foot.
>>>>
>>>> Some people will note that their dogs don't care which foot they start 
>>>> off
>>>> on and the dog adjusts. Some dogs do. Others struggle with it. I'm told
>>>> often by grads and observers that our dogs watch the handler's feet for
>>>> position and any uncertainty and correct their guiding accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> We also do some of the turns a bit differently. I'm struggling here to
>>>> recall what was done in my last class regarding left turns as I do them 
>>>> the
>>>> original way I was taught at GDF. This involves coming to a corner and
>>>> before giving the "left" command, turning my body 90 degrees to face 
>>>> left,
>>>> trying not to twist the handle of course. My knees are against my dog's
>>>> side. Then I give the "left" turn command and my dog has space to back 
>>>> up
>>>> around any obstacles like shrubbery or poles at the corner.
>>>>
>>>> The right turn command also is a tad different from what I was used to
>>>> before. It involves taking a step back with the right foot then putting 
>>>> your
>>>> weight on that foot and moving the left one back as well to give the 
>>>> dog
>>>> space to make the turn.
>>>>
>>>> In my early days at GDF we used a lot of hand signals. Those were 
>>>> dropped by
>>>> Mike Sergeant but are being reinstituted. Some people choose to use 
>>>> them and
>>>> some do not. I can't live without them. The thought is that using hand
>>>> signals does alert your dog to focus more on your body movements for
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>>> The final thing that is different about GDF that is probably the 
>>>> toughest
>>>> thing to learn is leash guiding. Yes we teach it and yes we teach it in 
>>>> a
>>>> very specific way to stay safe.
>>>>
>>>> Do many dogs guide on leash? Sure they do but can they do so in 
>>>> Manhattan?
>>>> Our dogs have.
>>>>
>>>> That said, we have drastically revised our leash guiding instructions 
>>>> due to
>>>> the increasing traffic threat out there. Distracted drivers don't give 
>>>> dogs
>>>> enough time to react when leash guiding so we no longer recommend using
>>>> leash guiding for street work. It can be used indoors, in familiar 
>>>> areas
>>>> outside without traffic but isn't recommended for street crossing any
>>>> longer.
>>>>
>>>> The distance between the dog's head and shoulders and your body is
>>>> significantly shorter when leash guiding, giving less reaction time. 
>>>> Your
>>>> hand should be in a specific position on the leash with a specific 
>>>> length of
>>>> leash between you and the dog. It's not as easy as it sounds.
>>>>
>>>> I can imagine some of you saying "that's not really very different from 
>>>> my
>>>> school."
>>>>
>>>> It may not be now as many schools have picked up on some of our 
>>>> methods.
>>>> Some instructors still get into friendly but heated discussions with me
>>>> about why the "Find" command is impossible and often misused. My 
>>>> response is
>>>> to ask if those misusing the command are from schools who teach it 
>>>> during
>>>> class thoroughly such as Southeastern and GDF. The answer, a sheepish 
>>>> no.
>>>>
>>>> When teaching your dog to find something, you're also paying attention 
>>>> to
>>>> the dog's signals when it's not there. You also are a partner in 
>>>> helping to
>>>> find it, not just giving a command and hanging on.
>>>>
>>>> I'll end this message with a situation that always gets me. I've even 
>>>> caught
>>>> our grads doing it. Them I can chide, in a friendly way of course.
>>>>
>>>> We're in a room, say at a convention, and someone comes up and asks how 
>>>> to
>>>> get out of the room.
>>>>
>>>> My thought, "Tell your dog to 'find outside'. Or whatever the command 
>>>> is you
>>>> use to find a doorway. Your dog can do these things. It's up to you to
>>>> practice and keep him sharp. It's also up to you to use your knowledge 
>>>> of
>>>> orientation to give him clues. That's what GDF taught me. Hope this 
>>>> helps.
>>>>
>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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