[nagdu] Advance Notification

Tue Mar 27 14:07:23 UTC 2012

I understand what everybody is saying. And, I agree with it.
Here is my question.  I go to Costco because I need or want something. Let's assume it's a need. One of the things Costco sells is diapers and formula. They sell them cheaply and of course they sell in bulk.  So, let's say I need diapers and formula (and believe me that stuff is expensive at say Giant or Safeway).  I go to Costco and somebody wants me to show ID.  I normally need to have someone drive me to Costco, partly because it isn't walkable, and partly because once I buy what I need, I have to haul all that stuff home.  So, I've gone to a bit of trouble and usually expense to make this trip happen which is fine, but does mean that I really do intend to walk out with my intended purchases.  So, the store asks for ID, and I call the police. If they decide they don't care (I did have this happen once) what exactly will my NFB state president do? Fine that he or she can resolve the issue in time, but I'm here now, I need to buy what I need to buy, and ona higher level, while I care about the next person, I also need to think of myself.

Using my example, why should I follow NFB's guidelines when the only bennifit is the greater good?
Why do I need to be a test case for this?

Why isn't NFB making what Costco is doing a criminal offense, or pushing so that if somebody does ask for ID, they risk loosing their job.

Not everybody can or wants to be a precident setter.  For me, this is more practical then emotional, we only have one Costco, it's close to my house, and I shop there because they have stuff I need and or want at prices I like. Suggesting that I can just shop elsewhere while this gets resolved isn't practical

Telling me what I should do when you (and I don't mean the below poster) won't be there to assist on a practical and real time level does me no good at all.
I could argue that NFB has the resources both legally and person-wise to fix this issue without the expectation that I should screw up both my short term and long-term plans as well as my pocketbook.

Anybody else have the same issue with NFB's direction?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:27 AM
To: nagdu
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification

I am in agreement with what President Gwizdala has said, being in situations recently where the places such as costco has asked for paper work or id card was just wrong, but the fact that people in the area are doing it, whether they are bullied into it or not shouldn't make a difference.
You need to think of the next person that comes after you, you are setting the example, be correct, be polite, but most of all, know what you are talking about, if the stores are doing the or location, just call the police, if that doesn't work, call one of us either your state president of your local chapter of NAGDU, or President Gwizdala.
Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentTravel and TourismNational Federation of the Blind

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com

For daily updates read our blog at
http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com

> From: blind411 at verizon.net
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:09:15 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification
>
> Natalie,
>     NAGDU is working diligently to provide accurate information about the
> rights and responsibilities of service dog users and the accommodations we
> patronize. For now, I think the "best answer" is to encourage all service
> dog users to follow the same protocol so as to not create confusion. I am of
> the opinion that, since the presence of a service dog is irrelevant to
> access and the services provided, service dogs are best served by not giving
> advance notice nor producing documentation of training. Such a practice
> sends the message that this is the norm and should be expected. I have had
> hotels, restaurants, and other places of public accommodations tell me that
> someone else called in advance and/or produced identification, why not me?
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Natalie" <nrorrell at qwest.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification
>
>
> >I know what you're saying, Marion.  I wish I had an easy answer for this.
> >I think the best thing to do is to push for more training of these
> >companies. Of course, people should not have to tell if they are gay,
> >black, Muslim, whatever.  I wish I had an easy answer.
> > Best,
> > Nat and Liam Joshua
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:54 AM
> > Subject: [nagdu] Advance Notification
> >
> >
> >> Natalie,
> >>    In this message, you say that you tell them you will be accompanied by
> >> a guide dog because you don't want any surprises. What I think is the
> >> biggest surprise is that taxi companies do not adequately train their
> >> employees on the civil rights provisions of the ADA. Just as it is
> >> illegal to discriminate against us by reason of our disability, it is
> >> another's civil right to not be discriminated against because of other
> >> characteristics. Should someone call a taxi company and tell them they
> >> are African American, Muslim, or gay? Why or why not? What if someone
> >> contends they are afraid of black people or that their religion forbids
> >> them from being in the presence of homosexuals? Should they be allowed to
> >> refuse service to them based upon these irrational concerns or should
> >> they be required to abide by the law?
> >>
> >> Fraternally yours,
> >> Marion Gwizdala
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Natalie" <nrorrell at qwest.net>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:22 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Taxi Refusal
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Cindy, et al,
> >>> I've had it go both ways.  Usually, I do tell them I have the dog when I
> >>> make my call, because, like Nicole, I'd prefer there to be no surprises.
> >>> However, I've had delays and minor challenges happen whether I prewarn
> >>> of the dog or not.  Just depends on the time of day, who's on staff, and
> >>> probably God knows what else.
> >>> Best,
> >>> Nat and Liam Joshua
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:49 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Taxi Refusal
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I don't understand why you do this when you have the lawful right to
> >>>>take the dog with you, and I think I did explain, or tried to. I don't
> >>>>mean for you to need to be so defensive about it. I mean, at this point,
> >>>>I expect that the fact I have my dog with me is likely in the cab
> >>>>company's computer, too, because I've taken him. I actually hadn't
> >>>>thought of that angle before. I won't be asking though because it might
> >>>>give them ideas that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Here, of course,
> >>>>we are small enough and we ride enough that they would know that the dog
> >>>>is with me. Probably they would with you as well. But when you tell them
> >>>>you have a dog, then it lets cab drivers opt out of driving you. That's
> >>>>all I was saying about it.
> >>>> Cindy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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