[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

Thu Nov 8 18:16:40 UTC 2012

        Exactly Cindy.

I also wonder if Joe Blow with his diabetes alert dog could claim a harrassment or some kind of discrimination suit if he was persistently asked questions by another patron or staff member.
Anybody have an answer to this?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:32 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

No, I wasn't talking about hurting feelings. I was just saying that if Joe Blow came in with his dog and said he was a diabetes alert dog, you would have to accept it unless it behaved in ways that were not indicative of a well trained dog. You can't ask for an ID because even if they could show you one ... Not sure what you are so upset about. I just don't see any way that you could find out except that if they wear something that marks them and someone who could see was there, they might tell you. And if a dog isn't being well behaved and is causing trouble, it can be asked to leave a public place whether it is a guide or diabetes alert dog or what, yes?

CL

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 8, 2012, at 10:21 AM, d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net> wrote:

> Ok if I am asking a question that would hurt someones feelings because I asked, then why do I need to worry about other dogs not being service dogs.
> Just let the public bring in all of their dogs and I don't have to ask anything.
> That is what is wrong with our world today don't ask, you will upset the apple cart.
> We sure have two different standards here.
> One hand we want to know that we are ok, but we can't ask any questions on what is happening when a baarking dog comes into play, we might hurt their feelings.
> Gee, what a world.
> Original message:
>> How would you know if any dog was a service dog. I think you mostly just have to go on faith, don't you? I am sure I have missed something here, but that is the same kind of problem we are asking people to face. We would just have to accept their word until it seemed otherwise, I think. Otherwise, don't you run the risk of alienating a legitimate dog handler or negating that person's rights?
>> CL
>
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 8, 2012, at 9:50 AM, d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net> wrote:
>
>>> Hello,
>>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just bringing in their pet how would we know.
>>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing thanks,
>>> Original message:
>>>> Hi gang,
>
>>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some questions.  There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs and even owner-trainers.  They range from the rather large and very well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer programs to owner-trained dogs.  d4d is an ADI member program.  ADI is the equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some of the smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are buyer-beware.  Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long and many competent people have decided to train their own dogs.  That can be a just fine option, too.  Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses fairly similar standards.  The dogs are trained to alert their person when the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is at least 80).  If the dog
>>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help themselves raise their blood glucose.  This is especially critical when the diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep. Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". Their numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and are dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if "awake" in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't think straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and that's it.  Very sad and scary.  The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle is quite long...multiple hours.  A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I want to say about 90 minutes or so.  This means that the dog is mostly awake and can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at many different points
>>>> throughout the night.  The dogs are generally taught to alert to the lows and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to smell...even you or I can smell it, no problem.  The ketones smell really sweet when someone is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek!  Dogs often will start to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their human when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so easy for them to smell.  What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the lows, though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the harder to catch lows!
>
>>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting dogs for diabetics.  I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a whole different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone knows more about the dogs for diabetics.
>
>>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case.  The dogs will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be able to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they are driving.  (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!)  A dog may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain function declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all kinds of errors.  All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public access and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly recognized service dogs.
>
>>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none other than the nearby GDB.  It's a good career change.  Often a dog that won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog.  I'm sure you all know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a wonderful way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and postpone or even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes complications.  I think this is great as long as it's done well, ethically, safely, etc!
>
>>>> Dogs rock.  It's people I sometimes wonder about.  ;)  j/k (sort of!)
>
>>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
>
>
>
>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please
>
>>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.  There is even a program that trains this type of dog.  I'm remembering it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon?  Of course the dog wouldn't have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to the guy's medical condition.
>
>
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>>> --
>>> --Dar
>>> skype: dmgina23
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>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>> every saint has a past
>>> every sinner has a future
>
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> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
> FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
>
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