[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing aneed for a guide dog!

[Lyn Gwizdak]

Yay, Jenny, about the foot!  Good thoughts coming your way and good luck on 
the interview.  Just be careful on the snow and ice that is probably 
coming - heard last night that snow was in Colorado.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

Lyn and Landon
"Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing 
aneed for a guide dog!


> Hi,
>
> I'm all healed now, and waiting for my home interview, once the nurse at 
> the school say I'm good to go when she looks at my medical records.
>
> Send some good thoughts and prayers.
>
> Jenny
> On Nov 10, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>
>> Hi Jenny,
>> Sounds like that woman was in a bad mood.  Maybe in pain but that doesn't 
>> excuse rude behavior.
>>
>> People use all kinds of dogs for service dogs.  Many in power chairs can 
>> use a small dog that fits on their laps and they jump of to perform a 
>> task. There was a local woman here with a Pomeranian as a service dog.  I 
>> once was at a meeting where there was a woman with a teacup Yorkie - very 
>> cute and very well behaved. I am surpised about the Beagle.  those are 
>> usually pretty vocal with baying instead of a bark and hard to 
>> housebreak.  But individuals from any breed can vary from what one thinks 
>> when you see a particular breed.  There can be quite mellow Beagles and 
>> rowdy ones.  There's a visually impaired wheelchair user at our blind 
>> center who has a service dog that is a Poodle mix - small one.  It is the 
>> kind one thinks about when you think "ankle biter" or that yaps 
>> constantly.  Not this dog!  He's so mellow and nice and gets along well 
>> with the guide dogs.  You'd never know that little dog was even in the 
>> room!
>>
>> Hope all is well with you and your foot is healing nicely.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing 
>> a need for a guide dog!
>>
>>
>>> I saw a woman in an electric wheelchair coming off the bus the other 
>>> day. Before she came off though, came a small dog in front of her.
>>>
>>> I asked her what kind of dog it was, and she told me, rudely I might 
>>> add, that it was a service dog.
>>>
>>> I told her that I had a guide dog and was applying for another so I 
>>> understood.  I also told her that I had never seen such a small dog be a 
>>> service dog, and couldn't see the dog very well, and again asked what 
>>> breed it was.
>>>
>>> She curtly told me it was a beagle and went on her way.
>>>
>>> I've never heard of a beagle being used a service dog.  But there are a 
>>> lot of things I no nothing about.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Melissa R Green wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know a person who ordered a harness from canada, and got a a school 
>>>> to certify her pet dog as a service dog.  I did a search online and you 
>>>> can buy a harness.  My trainer and I also did a search over the phone 
>>>> and she was surprised that harnesses are being sold online.
>>>> this person might be ledgit.  But there are those who aren't ledgit. 
>>>> Dar brings up a good question.  How does a blind person handle a 
>>>> situation like this?
>>>> Especially, if anyone can by a harness or a vest online.  Like the 
>>>> person I spoke of in the beginning of my message.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: d m gina
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:06 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are 
>>>> preventing a need for a guide dog!
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> yes it does matter that the person have some kind of proof their dog is
>>>> a service dog.
>>>> What does happen when I take a stand because their dog bit mine and I
>>>> would press charges, who wins there, I have my card, I have the collar
>>>> that says seeing eye, I have a leash that says seeing eye, and I have
>>>> the harness that says seeing eye.
>>>> What makes me angry is Joe blow comes in with his dog only a collar,
>>>> and he gets in, where I have to have my dog dressed in its outfit to
>>>> work him and I am proud of this.
>>>> I am just asking from a blind persons view I wouldn't know if the
>>>> person was telling the truth or not.
>>>> I for the most part bind my own business, unless I hear dogs groweling
>>>> because they don't like set dog.
>>>> Who would I stand up for, if both persons claim they have service dogs.
>>>> I walk with no shame at all, that my dog was trained, I don't have to
>>>> studder and walk around the issue.
>>>> As what happened over the weekend.
>>>> I asked my husband if he knew this person and he said no, he couldn't
>>>> even remember who the person was that had the dog.
>>>> It is just interesting to me, to learn as working with nagdu I want to
>>>> help spread the good of this organization and can't do well if I don't
>>>> know the exact steps to take, when I can't even tell if a dog is a
>>>> service dog or not.
>>>> Oh well, I will stay a happy camper, work my dog, and just be the Dar I 
>>>> know.
>>>> I will let others decide what is good and what isn't.
>>>> My specialtys can be used for other organizations.
>>>> It is ok for me to say I couldn't tell if the set dog is a service dog 
>>>> or not.
>>>> As long as I take care of me that is all that matters.
>>>> We the team are doing quite well, three months into the program from
>>>> seeing eye.
>>>> he rocked at the convention, keeping himself as a little gentleman 
>>>> should.
>>>> I did use the gentle leader at the dining room table so he wouldn't try
>>>> to dive for food.
>>>> One time he dove for a peace of paper, as I did ask the waitress what
>>>> he was trying to go for.
>>>> he thought it was food loll.
>>>> I understand, I didn't bring his food so he had to wait until he got
>>>> home he thought smile.
>>>> the little bowl I took I was starting to wonder if the two cups of food
>>>> would fit.
>>>> It did, and I was pleased.
>>>> the more we are a team the better.
>>>> he is starting to remember the persons car or van we travel in, and
>>>> that is good.
>>>> We went threw a parking lot, on our own where he found the correct car
>>>> on his own.
>>>> The driver and the grocery guy walked ahead.
>>>> I am so proud of this boy, I could write forever.
>>>> Thanks for asking.
>>>>
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Dar,
>>>>> If I read your post right, you are concerned with the fact that 
>>>>> someone
>>>>> brings a dog into a place where you're at.  You are totally blind and 
>>>>> are
>>>>> worried about if that dog will scare the crap out of you - it growls
>>>>> menacinginly at your dog or it actually tries to attack your dog.  Is 
>>>>> this
>>>>> correct?
>>>>
>>>>> I hear you on this and your concerns are very valid.  I've been a 
>>>>> guide dog
>>>>> user for a very long time and have been the target of several attacks 
>>>>> on my
>>>>> dogs over the years.  My limited vision doesn't always see that 
>>>>> there's a
>>>>> menacing dog nearby but I'll hear it if it snarls at my dog.  It does 
>>>>> scare
>>>>> the crap out of me.
>>>>
>>>>> What I find is that many people don't care if their dog is socialized 
>>>>> for
>>>>> public access - I'm talking about pets.  People don't bother to train 
>>>>> their
>>>>> dogs to walk nice on a leash. In earlier times, my dogs have been 
>>>>> accosted
>>>>> by nasty pets that are not under control by their humans.  Now that 
>>>>> same
>>>>> problem remains the same only now there are people who claim hidden
>>>>> disability and their dog is a service dog.  They may really have a
>>>>> disability but they do not know that they have standards that their 
>>>>> dog must
>>>>> adhere to.  the humans don't give a rat's behind if their dog bothers 
>>>>> a
>>>>> working guide dog or service dog walking along doing its job.  This is 
>>>>> a
>>>>> huge problem in the city where people have to walk their dogs and they 
>>>>> have
>>>>> all these little ankle biters.
>>>>
>>>>> Now, add to this mix the past lax rules of ADA which allowed for 
>>>>> anything
>>>>> someone called a "service animal".  The owners have had no training on
>>>>> proper ettiquete with having a dog in public where pets aren't 
>>>>> allowed. It
>>>>> has taken us too many years - 20 years - to finally tighten up the ADA
>>>>> rules.  The horse is out of the barn and now we want to shut the door.
>>>>> Well, too late now - it's out.  And there are problems for us with
>>>>> litgitimate guide and service dogs that actually are trained to 
>>>>> perform a
>>>>> task to mitigate our disabilities.  And there's no real way to stop 
>>>>> the
>>>>> abuse of ADA.  The ADA prevents this by not allowing the having to 
>>>>> show
>>>>> proof via ID cards, vests, whatever.  This won't work anyway because 
>>>>> people
>>>>> can always make IDs or buy vests on the Internet.
>>>>
>>>>> I think this all boils down to educating businesses to the ADA and 
>>>>> it's
>>>>> rules concerning service dogs.  We have to educate them to know that 
>>>>> they
>>>>> are within their rights to kick out individuals who do not control 
>>>>> their
>>>>> dogs properly.  They have to realize that they have this right and 
>>>>> will not
>>>>> be sued.  If they are, they think they'll lose and that will cost them 
>>>>> lots
>>>>> of money.  Business owners are afraid of violating the ADA and put up 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the problem children.  And, of course, there are those business people 
>>>>> who
>>>>> don't care about ADA and try to deny us our rights of access.
>>>>
>>>>> A vest or ID doesn't make a dog a real service dog and it really 
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> make sense to rail on that issue.  We really need to deal with the 
>>>>> HUGE
>>>>> issue of ill behaved dogs in public and what can we do about that 
>>>>> issue.
>>>>
>>>>> BTW, hope the new dog is working out well for you.
>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:50 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are 
>>>>> preventing a
>>>>> need for a guide dog!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>>>>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>>>>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says
>>>>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a
>>>>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on
>>>>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>>>>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>>>>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just
>>>>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>>>>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>>>>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our
>>>>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>>>>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his
>>>>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>>>>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>>>>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hi gang,
>>>>
>>>>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some
>>>>>> questions. There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> even owner-trainers. They range from the rather large and very
>>>>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to 
>>>>>> smaller/newer
>>>>>> programs to owner-trained dogs. d4d is an ADI member program. ADI is 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some 
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are
>>>>>> buyer-beware. Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> many competent people have decided to train their own dogs. That can 
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> just fine option, too. Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses
>>>>>> fairly similar standards. The dogs are trained to alert their person 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least 80). If the dog
>>>>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too
>>>>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help
>>>>>> themselves raise their blood glucose. This is especially critical 
>>>>>> when the
>>>>>> diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep.
>>>>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". 
>>>>>> Their
>>>>>> numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if 
>>>>>> "awake"
>>>>>> in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't 
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and 
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> it. Very sad and scary. The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> quite long...multiple hours. A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I 
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to say about 90 minutes or so. This means that the dog is mostly 
>>>>>> awake and
>>>>>> can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at 
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> different points
>>>>>> throughout the night. The dogs are generally taught to alert to the 
>>>>>> lows
>>>>>> and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to 
>>>>>> smell...even you
>>>>>> or I can smell it, no problem. The ketones smell really sweet when 
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek! Dogs often will 
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their 
>>>>>> human
>>>>>> when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for
>>>>>> alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so 
>>>>>> easy
>>>>>> for them to smell. What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the 
>>>>>> lows,
>>>>>> though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the 
>>>>>> harder to
>>>>>> catch lows!
>>>>
>>>>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting 
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> for diabetics. I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a 
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone 
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>> more about the dogs for diabetics.
>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe
>>>>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case. The 
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be 
>>>>>> able
>>>>>> to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> driving. (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!) A 
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're
>>>>>> low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain 
>>>>>> function
>>>>>> declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all 
>>>>>> kinds of
>>>>>> errors. All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public 
>>>>>> access
>>>>>> and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly
>>>>>> recognized service dogs.
>>>>
>>>>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from 
>>>>>> none
>>>>>> other than the nearby GDB. It's a good career change. Often a dog 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog. I'm sure 
>>>>>> you all
>>>>>> know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides
>>>>>> because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained
>>>>>> glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a 
>>>>>> wonderful
>>>>>> way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and 
>>>>>> postpone or
>>>>>> even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes
>>>>>> complications. I think this is great as long as it's done well, 
>>>>>> ethically,
>>>>>> safely, etc!
>>>>
>>>>>> Dogs rock. It's people I sometimes wonder about. ;) j/k (sort of!)
>>>>
>>>>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>>>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please
>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.
>>>>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog. I'm 
>>>>>>> remembering
>>>>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon? Of course the dog 
>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> guy's medical condition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> --
>>>>> --Dar
>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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