[nagdu] Working Our Dogs
Tami Jarvis
tami at poodlemutt.com
Fri Nov 16 18:38:37 UTC 2012
Dar,
Wait! You know me, and you're giving me an excuse to ramble? /grin/
Actually, I think one reason I've been noting so much of what you've
shared, Sarah, and the support and ideas others are giving you, is
because so much is hauntingly familiar. Both from my past, when I was a
sweet young thing like you and from my present, moving back to where it
all began, so to speak. Actually, a lot of those ideas and suggestions
have been really apt for me.
So, thanks, everybody! /smile/
First, I do totally get the impossibly dangerous road you mentioned,
having just moved away from my own version. Whew! Since it was
impossible to get anywhere without dealing with that road -- and the
insane drivers hurtling along it in growing numbers and density -- I
would go mad at least once a day because I just wanted to get out with
my guide dog and go! Also, I was just too strapped for that little extra
for the bus, and it was getting to dangerous at the bus stop, then on
the way to the bus stop... So I would have to go mad once or twice a day
over that... I could have called paratransit, but that was even more
expensive and time consuming when all I wanted to do was pop out the
door and walk to the corner market. I kept telling myself that it
couldn't be that hard to figure out a sane, workable solution, but...
Nope! Since even the sighted pedestrians feared to tread there and just
quit treading, and the drivers in the neighborhoods on either side of
that road feared for their lives trying to get on or off of it, I could
only conclude that being stubborn enough to use it anyway would be too
likely to be fatally stupid. This would make me crazy and I would have
to go mad for awhile. /lol/
Like you, I also felt guilty about not giving Mitzi the work and
adventure she needed because of all of this. Oh, there were places I
could walk, but they were few and so didn't provide the stimulation both
of us need. I also did a fair amount of worrying that by the time we got
ourselves moved away from that problem, I would have lost myself a dang
good guide dog.
Here are some of the ways I found to help prevent that loss and to keep
us both sane:
1. Interactive play, in the house or in our yard, which was not ideal.
We were in our own house on rented property. Since the owners never got
around to bring the yard up to snuff, we were not about to pay what it
would have taken to improve their property. Oregon is pretty bad when it
comes to recourse for situations like that, so we did free stuff over
time (grass clippings, working on this or that by hand) and complained a
lot. /smile/ Still, Mitzi loves soccer and is really great about giving
me sound cues and stuff as my vision fades. So it's good for me, too,
and we have a lot of fun. Also, we're building our communication and
mutual interaction and all that, which we use a lot when she's working.
So it helped to keep that part up.
2. Once DD (my now husband) retired, he was able to take us over to the
nearby park where Mitzi and I could walk together and work that way on
the trails and so forth. There were places I could give her really good
run play and socialization, too, and I took advantage of that. I'm an
owner-trainer and can make my own decisions and use my own judgment when
it comes to off leash play and even dog parks.
You already know this, but I will go ahead and point out that if your
guide dog program is against dog parks (as most are) and off leash
outdoor activities, then you need to respect that and abide by it.
Also, because my pup was raised differently, she spent her childhood and
then youth learning how to run wild, run free, with and from other dogs.
So she learned how to avoid many of the dangers from them. A dog raised
by a guide dog program is generally protected from all of that, so
reaches adulthood not having learned the lessons. Probably, when/if I
get a program-trained dog, I won't be so blase about the risks even if
the program is okay with my deciding on my own whether or not to take
them. Just as I wouldn't go galloping off into the back of beyond with a
stable-raised and trained horse like I used to on our free running
mountain/cow horses. /smile/
So I'm not suggesting you start going against what your program
requires. Just mentioning that this was something that worked for me and
Mitzi in our situation.
If you can come up with some safe and approved equivalent, like play
dates in a friend's fenced yard with their good dog, or in your yard if
you have one, you can give Wizard exercise and interaction and
socialization that he might be missing from lack of that regular work
you would rather be giving him.
3. When we could arrange it, DD would drop me off at a mall or other
good working place so that Mitzi and I could get in some real work and
do refresher stuff for both of us so we didn't become hopeless. We also
were able to do that with a friend and her guide, while our partners
hung out and did their own thing. So that was the best! We didn't manage
it often, what with busy schedules and all, but it helped. Especially in
times when the only other work Mitzi was getting was to and from the
truck for minor errands or whatever. She did okay with that, but it
really was far from ideal.
Anyway, as for the other things, Dar mentioned, I will talk about those
in a later message, since you and I seem to be on such a similar track
for now. Except that you're a sweet young thing and I'm a snarly old
fart. Teehee.
Best,
Tami Jarvis
HTH,
Tami
On 11/15/2012 09:04 PM, d m gina wrote:
> Tammy,
> Share with Sarah in the town you live, what you are doing, getting out
> walking your dog, and how are you learning the area.
> Is a store near you, or do you take a buss?
> Or do you have to wait for the car ride?
> I hope your address got into my book.
> Thanks,
> Original message:
>> Sarah and Lyn,
>
>> I've been enjoying getting to know you, Sarah, through the journey
>> you've shared with us. Even though I'm an old fart like Lyn, I still
>> remember too much about being your age in a small town, where resources
>> are limited, so much is limited, but I needed to somehow get on with
>> growing up and getting to the life I wanted anyway... Having no clue
>> from never having lived an adult life, it was scary, depressing, etc. I
>> mean, how do you deal with the struggle when you don't even know what
>> winning it is like? Honestly! People do, apparently. Somehow, I did. But
>> when you're in the middle of it, and it's you, and you don't know what
>> it's like on the other side of all those barriers.... Tough stuff.
>
>> So I've been reading what you share and what others have to offer and
>> trying to figure out if somehow I have something useful...
>
>
>> Lyn's suggestion of an NFB Center is inspired! If you can get from where
>> you are to there... Some VR agencies will do anything to keep their
>> clients from anyplace so heretical (mine, in Oregon, is one). Others
>> will do what they should by law. Others can be convinced. I think
>> California is better about that than many others, especially for younger
>> clients.
>
>> So would that maybe work? Your mother would still have the extra
>> financial assistance from your income while you're away, but you could
>> be in a learning environment in which you could get much of what you
>> need and will need, while having places to work Wizard. There is a lot
>> of controversy (at times, anyway) about the NFB Centers approach to
>> attendees with guide dogs, since they don't allow the use of guide dogs
>> in class time. I think there's some easing, but can't really tell you
>> the exact ins and outs or if they vary slightly from Center to Center.
>
>> Still, you can work your dog when you're not in classes, in places where
>> it's safe to do so. Or so I assume, since they are places where the cane
>> using students can also move around safely at will. So maybe an
>> improvement over what you're working around now?
>
>> Anyway, it's a thought. What you do is up to you, of course. /smile/ You
>> certainly have a hard row to hoe, as they say, but I can tell that you
>> are strong and very, very bright. You won't do things as I think you
>> should, but I'm not you and not living your life. You are and will find
>> your way despite the added difficulties and challenges.
>
>> Wish I had the secret magic key, but, you know. I'm not Dumbledore! /lol/
>
>> Best to you in finding what you need in your circumstances.
>
>> Tami Jarvis
>
>> On 11/15/2012 04:00 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> Yeah Sarah,
>>> Thought so. And so is Wizard. This is very unhealthy for both of you.
>
>>> Is there an NFB chapter near you? Maybe they can connect you with a
>>> good therapist for the depression. I have suffered with depression for
>>> most of my life and have been in and out of therapy myself. No shame in
>>> that and I'm a better person because of it.
>
>>> You owe it to Wizard to give him the work he needs, get yourself out -
>>> get help and support - and start living your life. Many of us are poor
>>> - I get that. many of us grew up in places with no public
>>> transportation - I get that. Maybe try to get into college in a larger
>>> city where you can get around independently. maybe go to an NFB
>>> training center where you will learn the living skills you will need for
>>> the rest of your life.
>
>>> As for Wizard, well figure out how to make him happy with work and a
>>> purpose or do him the kindness of returning him for another more active
>>> person to have. I'm not saying this to be mean - I'm not. I'm just a 61
>>> year old fart who has been around the block a time or two and have been
>>> where you are. Please, do it for you and do it for Wizard.
>
>>> I'm sorry to hear that still there are parents of blind kids who think
>>> they're doing the kid a favor by sheltering them and not teaching them
>>> how to be adults like parents are supposed to be doing for their kids -
>>> disabled or not. There's just no excuse for that today with all the
>>> information on the Internet available to parents of blind kids. This
>>> didn't exist in the early 1950s when i was a kid. When I was growing
>>> up, I didn't get sheltered but my sister did and she's the one who has
>>> had to pay for that decision. She was never made to do anything and I
>>> was and now she has to live with me with me taking care of her. she
>>> does have developmental disability along with blindness and me just
>>> blind with some physical stuff that has showeed up with age.
>
>>> I grew up in a town with NO buses or anything except for folks driving
>>> their cars. I left town when I was 20 and went to college in Boston.
>>> what freedom! I could walk anywhere and i could ride the bus and
>>> trolleys and subways anywhere - whenever i wanted. Even the late night
>>> parties!
>
>>> Please get some help! You deserve it.
>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah" <coastergirl92 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>
>>>> Yeah I'm really depressed. And when me and Wizard work we really have
>>>> nowhere to go except around the blocks and that bores uddNow every
>>>> time I put his harness on, he turns his head away or tries to go get
>>>> in his bed. The instructors said he leves to work but that's not true
>>>> now.
>
>>>> Sarah and Wizard
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:22:45 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>>>> Sarah,
>>>> I've been reading your posts and other's responses to them. I am
>>>> concerned
>>>> about your having nothing to occupy your time or ability to get out
>>>> and walk
>>>> and work your dog. You sound young if you're still living at home and
>>>> your
>>>> Mom still works.
>
>>>> Sarah, you need to find some volunteer work where you can do something
>>>> useful. I pick up some depressed and defeated signals from you and,
>>>> boy do
>>>> i know what that's like, and you need to get out for your own mental
>>>> and
>>>> physical health. The same goes for the dog. These dogs are bred to
>>>> work
>>>> and they need it.
>
>>>> I used to live in a place with limited bus service and I just had to
>>>> plan
>>>> for that. Unfortunately, as blind people, we must live on other
>>>> people's
>>>> time when it comes to getting things done or going someplace. For this
>>>> reason, I chose to move back to the city where we have many buses that
>>>> run
>>>> at least every 15 minutes and a number to choose from. Here in San
>>>> Diego, I
>>>> live in City Heights, a very urban area. I live along two bus
>>>> routes and
>>>> these connect to all the others as well as a trolley system. I can
>>>> get to
>>>> most places I want to. Where these don't go or at night, I also have
>>>> paratransit. You may want to consider moving to a city where you can
>>>> have a
>>>> life.
>
>>>> In my area, there are a whole bunch of blind and disabled folks and we
>>>> either have Section-8 Housing Vouchers or live in Senior/Disabled
>>>> housing.
>>>> It works. Many don't have jobs but some of us have volunteer jobs or
>>>> other
>>>> activities to keep busy. I do pet assisted therapy with Landon
>>>> where we
>>>> bring cheer and animals to visit those folks in facilities where they
>>>> can't
>>>> have a pet. I'm active in my Democratic Party club, my LGBT community
>>>> events, and local blind center where I do crafts and belong to the
>>>> singing
>>>> group for our huge fundraiser each holiday season. When I'm not doing
>>>> those
>>>> things, I spend time with friends, read, watch TV, work on the
>>>> computer.
>
>>>> You have a life - live it to the max! You're only young once and it
>>>> gets no
>>>> easier as you age. I sure know about that - I'm 61. I remember all
>>>> the
>>>> work and partying I did in my 20s - Hahahaha! I don't party much now.
>
>>>> I wish you well and hope you find the right solution for your
>>>> situation.
>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Debbie Cole" <debbieanne1124 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:13 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>
>>>> I agree with Julie. Our buses here run only on the hour. But i still
>>>> know the schedule and get up to the hospital for PT on time and make
>>>> arrangements to ahng out in the hospital until 10 minutes before the
>>>> bus should come. It can be done.
>
>>>> And Sarah... I'm a deaf/blind. Just saying.
>
>>>> On 11/10/12, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> What's the problem with the bus running only once an hour? Just plan
>>>> accordingly. I used to live in a city where the busses ran once an
>>>> hour
>>>> for most of the day and longer on saturday. It's totally doable. Just
>>>> wear a watch and know when the last bus is so you don't get stuck
>>>> someplace.
>
>>>> You knew the bus schedule when you got your guide dog. Nothing has
>>>> changed. You knew you'd have to work the dog. I'm assuming you've
>>>> gone
>>>> over this with GDD. What suggestions did they make? Is there some
>>>> reason those are not working for you now?
>
>>>> As to how much I work my guide in an average week...at least 5 days.
>>>> He's fine with a day or two off, more than that and he gets fidgety and
>>>> restless. If we've had a long weekend out of town where he's worked
>>>> some very long days in a row, I will plan for a day of no work or very
>>>> light. An average week of routes would include:
>>>> 5 trips to and from my office, about 10 blocks each way
>>>> 1 trip to the middle school about 25 minutes one way
>>>> 1 trip to the high school about 15 minutes one way
>>>> 1-2 errands, generally these are downtown and I do them before or after
>>>> work so maybe an extra 1-4 blocks on top of the route to work
>>>> 1 trip to the grocery store by car, about 1 hour in the store
>>>> All of that stuff is pretty much guaranteed in a week, but I also
>>>> travel
>>>> out of town frequently. I suppose once a month if you averaged it out
>>>> over a year. I also attend random meetings and teach an all day
>>>> Saturday class at the college 4 times in a school year. Then
>>>> there is
>>>> walking nowhere in particular for exercise or to spend time with my son
>>>> just doing something we both enjoy. Oh and the random saturday
>>>> mornings
>>>> when you just have to have donuts and a mocha!
>
>>>> Even on Monty's days off I will still make sure he has a good amount of
>>>> exercise by playing in the back yard or off leash running. A note
>>>> about
>>>> off leash time...if you're dog isn't trustworthy off leash you
>>>> shouldn't
>>>> be letting him free run. Monty is excellent off leash so he gets that
>>>> opportunity. Belle would be in the next county in about 3 seconds so
>>>> she gets the Flexi leash. Monty is a very high energy dog and needs
>>>> this level of work. I think Belle would be content with 2-3 days a
>>>> week, if she were able to guide still.
>
>>>> Julie
>
>
>
>
>>>> On 11/10/2012 10:35 AM, Sarah wrote:
>>>> I live in the desert where the bus only runs ond an hour. And my mom
>>>> works from 4 o'clock in the morning until 3 in the afternoon so she
>>>> usually doesn't feel like taking me anywhere.
>
>>>> Sarah and Wizard
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Debbie Cole <debbieanne1124 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:35:39 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>>>> Do you use a city buss or Access (Mini Van for your transit company
>>>> for the disabled? Unless you are in the suburbs You shouldn't be
>>>> using that as an excuse. When your mom goes to the amrket go along
>>>> with her and go off on your own jsut you and Wizard and do your thing
>>>> while she does her thing.
>
>>>> On 11/9/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I just wonder because I have nowhere to go nothing to do. I have
>>>> no job and there's nowhere to go where I can walk except around
>>>> the streets of the neighborhood but he's getting bored with that
>>>> and the weather is getting bad. And I have no money for Access
>>>> to go anywhere.
>
>>>> Sarah and Wizard
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chantel Cuddemi" <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:15:44 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>>>> I give Motley the weekend off. He loves it!
>
>>>> Chantel and Motley
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 12:54 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Working Our Dogs
>
>>>> Hello list,
>
>>>> I was wondering how often do you work your dogs? I feel like I
>>>> have to work Wizard every day and I feel guilty if I just let him
>>>> have one day off. How long is the longest you've allied your
>>>> dogs time off?
>
>
>>>> Sarah and Wizard
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 04:52:34 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs
>>>> arepreventing aneed for a guide dog!
>
>>>> Lyn my husband and I were at the convention last weekend. Our
>>>> dogs misbehaved and growled and were immediately corrected. I
>>>> would agree with you if we chose not to bring our dogs under
>>>> control but we did and it didn't happen again. When you know all
>>>> of the facts then please make judgment calls on whether a dog
>>>> should remain in a situation. I don't know of any dog that
>>>> hasn't made a misstep and the important thing is that the dogs
>>>> were corrected properly and immediately. In fact they were still
>>>> lying at our feet. They didn't stand up or approach in any way.
>
>>>> Sheila Leigland
>
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>
>>>> --
>>>> warmly,
>
>>>> Debbie Cole
>
>>>> debbieanne1124 at gmail.com
>
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>
>>>> --
>>>> warmly,
>
>>>> Debbie Cole
>
>>>> debbieanne1124 at gmail.com
>
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