[nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment, possible rule changes

Thu Nov 29 01:44:10 UTC 2012

Lyn,

Thanks for saying that so very well!

I'll be honest. The nitpicky, legalistic, etc., etc., part of me is 
offended as all get out by people taking their perfect pets where my 
perfect (except for when she's not!) guide dog can go by law. However, 
realistically, where is the actual problem?

Then I look at all the offered solutions to the actual non-problem, and 
my hair stands on end. Each and every one of them will cause me, and not 
only me, a problem. If not lots of problems! Thank you, but no! /lol/

Oh, I haven't heard the latest on the sitch over in Portland where I 
don't live anymore. But apparently, the solution to problems with dogs 
on the transit system who don't belong there is to check licenses and 
vaccination records. Hm... They have, apparently, caught some 
unlicensed/unvaccinated dogs, so yay them! The county gets more fees! 
Yay! I'm still scratching my head wondering what effect either has on 
ensuring a licensed, vaccinated pet doesn't chomp my poodle guide next 
time I"m over there riding a bus or train. Or that it doesn't just 
harass my guide so we have to get off where we don't want to be while 
she is so over-harassed she can't work for the next half hour. Or... I'm 
just saying. The transit company is certainly being *seen* to be doing 
something, and they are very impressed with themselves, or so it also 
seems. I'm just not seeing the usefulness there.

Then again, what do I know? I'm blind! /snide smirk/

Well, I'm still feeling kinda snotty about the entire issue, since 
within the last year, I did have to take my dog out because of her 
reaction to a dog of some sort in a restaurant that appeared to be not 
in control... Only, once I got out and could take a deep breath, I 
realized that my guide dog had settled down and ceased misbehavior... 
The actual team member I had to remove for incipient aggression was, you 
know, me. /lol/ I was about to do someone, anyone, in however I could. 
It was that aggravating! Still, I would rather that someone who brings 
some small, floppy thing into a restaurant would notice that there was 
something doggish going on before she/he plops down nearby to chat with 
someone 3 feet from another dog while her party goes on to their actual 
table... And without noting that the dog has 4 feet of leash and is 
still flopping and flouncing adorably... Next to a much larger dog that 
has stuck its nose out from under a table and snarked at it!

Honestly! My dog should not have shot to her feet, stuck her nose out 
and snarked decisively. But... If you had a 15 to 20 pound dog and a 55 
pound dog made noises at it, would you just, I dunno, plop down and chat 
without noticing anything was going on? I mean, it's like there was an 
Irish Wolfhound (want one!) or St. Bernard or something of uncertain 
temperament 3 feet from one of our guide dogs... Would you just, like, 
not even wonder if maybe you should move on a bit to be further away?

Okay. So it was 2 or 3 months ago, and I am clearly just not over it. 
/lol/ I guess it's safe to say that I am no longer worried about the 
legal status of any given dog but whether or not they come accompanied 
by a human that is stupid enough to not notice that their dog is not 
following proper etiquette which causes another dog to not follow proper 
etiquette, however briefly, which sends that dog's handler into a tizzy 
so she has to leave the place to keep from biting anyone. Of course, 
there was the spousal unit there, in the same state of 
exhaustion/stress/exhaustion/stress as his female companions... He was 
the first one to be bitten by me! /lol/ Don't worry. He bites back, then 
we were over it. The guide dog was happy to jump in the truck, get home 
and collapse somewhere on her own away from her badly behaved, 
ill-tempered humans. /lol/

Tami

On 11/28/2012 04:31 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Tami,
> I feel the same way - I don't care what the dog is there for as long as
> it is behaving properly and not causing negative feedback to come back
> on me. If the "fakes" keep on the low-down with their well behaved
> "fake" service dogs, who would be the wiser?  I don't care if a well
> trained and behaved pet is in a store, on the bus, in a restaurant -
> just so long as it isn't creating a rukus or attacking my dog.
>
> So yeah, it's the behavior that irks people not the fact a person has a
> card or a vest that says "service dog".  I really don't think the public
> gives a rat's behind about if a person has a disability or not and has a
> well behaved dog on the premesis.
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment,possible rule
> changes
>
>
>> Jenine,
>>
>> Thanks for adding that. I always try to emphasize that in my own
>> attempts at educating, because it really is key. I honestly don't care
>> if it's a real service dog or not, so long as it behaves in public as
>> we all expect our dogs to behave. Conversely, if our real service dogs
>> decide to misbehave, and for some reason we can't get things under
>> control, it is our responsibility to take our low down scurvy curs out
>> the nearest door as quickly as possible. Or be thrown out on our ears.
>>
>> That's actually the gist of my current spiel, since it seems to get
>> the point across more effectively than more delicate approaches I've
>> tried, especially if I'm speaking to a business owner or someone on
>> "the other side" of the service dog equation. "Oh. That makes sense,"
>> is a good response in my book. /smile/
>>
>> Ah, well. The debate will go on and it will be good for us. As an
>> owner-trainer, I just get extra snarky sometimes because of how
>> requiring me to pay a bunch o' money to get a nice piece of laminated
>> paper will solve the problem of frauds... I can pass that off about 9
>> times running, then just go nuts at repeat #10. On the local list
>> scene, I'm kinda at #10 plus before I have a chance to get the nuts
>> out of my system, so... Probably someone should check to ensure I'm
>> safe to be out in public or something in case of bad behavior. /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 11/25/2012 04:42 PM, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>>> Julie is correct. The only thing this article did leave out was the
>>> requirement for any service animal to be under control of the handler
>>> at all
>>> times. This means any service animal regardless of its training origins.
>>> It's the controlled behavior that earns us the right to have our animals
>>> working with us in public, not the mere presence of the animal or
>>> presence
>>> of task training for such an animal. That's a point that is often
>>> overlooked.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:14 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment, possible rule
>>> changes
>>>
>>> Tami,
>>>
>>> Definitely read the article.  It's good, accurate, addresses the big
>>> issues,
>>> mentions owner training as a viable option and explains the laws
>>> correctly.
>>> I was very pleasantly surprised.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> On 11/25/2012 5:41 PM, Tami Jarvis wrote:
>>>> Okay... I should read the article before commenting. But my comment is
>>>> that I just can't read another of these articles right now. Our local
>>>> transit company made a decision about how to deal with "the dog
>>>> problem" here... I'm reading what the locals have to say about this
>>>> big move...
>>>>
>>>> When I get over being too irritable on the subject to talk about any
>>>> of it without cursing, I'll come here to ask some questions or
>>>> something.
>>>>
>>>> Mutter, mumble, grumble... /loll/
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
>>>> On 11/25/2012 01:31 PM, Ginger Kutsch wrote:
>>>>> Fake service dogs provoke resentment, possible rule changes
>>>>>
>>>>> By Christine Stapleton
>>>>>
>>>>> Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
>>>>>
>>>>> Source:
>>>>> http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/lifestyles/pets/fake-service-dogs-p
>>>>> rovoke-
>>>>>
>>>>> resentment-possible-rule/nTD9C/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Macy and Milo, blond Labs with constantly wagging tails, look and
>>>>> goof off like the other pooches at the dog park.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Their owner, 20-year-old college student Shoshana Rappaport, looks
>>>>> like the
>>>>> other doting dog moms, telling her dogs to knock it off when they
>>>>> play too
>>>>> rough and smothering them with hugs when they are worn out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But Macy and Milo are not like the other dogs at the dog park. When
>>>>> Rappaport turns her head to the right and her neon orange hearing
>>>>> aid is
>>>>> visible, it is obvious that she also is not like the other dog moms
>>>>> at the
>>>>> park.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Macy and Milo are service dogs. They have been trained to alert
>>>>> Rappaport,
>>>>> who is profoundly deaf and also has vertigo, to vital sounds that
>>>>> many of us
>>>>> take for granted - car horns, door bells or a stranger approaching
>>>>> from
>>>>> behind. Shoshana also uses the dogs to support, stabilize and right
>>>>> her
>>>>> during vertigo episodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Macy and Milo can go
>>>>> wherever Rappaport goes - including restaurants, hotels, taxicabs and
>>>>> theaters. Also because of the ADA, Rappaport doesn't have to prove
>>>>> she is
>>>>> disabled - a provision in the law designed to protect the privacy of
>>>>> people
>>>>> with disabilities and to prevent discrimination.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, all any dog owner needs to do to be eligible for access
>>>>> privileges
>>>>> guaranteed under the ADA is to say that the dog is a service dog. And
>>>>> that
>>>>> has led some dog owners who do not have disabilities and whose dogs
>>>>> are not
>>>>> service dogs to use the ADA as a loophole to take their pets
>>>>> everywhere they
>>>>> go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As more dogs are being trained to assist people whose disabilities
>>>>> are not
>>>>> readily apparent, such as deafness, post-traumatic stress disorder and
>>>>> diabetes, fake service dogs are seen more in public places, said John
>>>>> Ensminger, a New York attorney and author of the books "Service
>>>>> Dogs in
>>>>> America" and "Police and Military Dogs."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I think it's definitely increasing," said Ensminger, who said he is
>>>>> receiving more requests for interviews and more reports of fake dogs
>>>>> on his
>>>>> blog, The Dog Law Reporter. Among the most recent reports, show dogs
>>>>> being
>>>>> passed off as emotional support dogs, he said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The phenomenon can infuriate people with real disabilities who rely
>>>>> on their
>>>>> highly trained dogs to lead as normal and active a life as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "For everybody that needs a service dog, it's a slap in their face for
>>>>> somebody to go on-line and get a service dog vest so they can go
>>>>> into a
>>>>> store or a restaurant with their dog," said Joe Rainey, a Marine
>>>>> who was
>>>>> wounded in Vietnam.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rainey, of Greenacres, relies on his service dog, Tanker, who has had
>>>>> mobility and stability training to assist Rainey when he is
>>>>> unsteady or
>>>>> cannot get up. "I am a Marine and it's like someone pretending to be a
>>>>> Marine who was wounded while serving their country."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem stems in part from the protections for the disabled set
>>>>> up under
>>>>> ADA. Businesses can ask only two questions when a dog enters their
>>>>> establishment: Is your dog a service dog? What tasks has the dog been
>>>>> trained to perform?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Businesses cannot require special identification for the dog or ask
>>>>> about
>>>>> the person's disability. It does not matter whether the dog is
>>>>> wearing a
>>>>> service-dog vest or the owner's disability is visible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "A business person is very limited in what they can do when someone
>>>>> declares
>>>>> they have a service animal," said Geoff Luebkemann, vice president of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association. "The average restaurant
>>>>> owner or
>>>>> hotelier just isn't versed in this and they are concerned they will
>>>>> be the
>>>>> subject of an ADA lawsuit."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Other laws supersede the ADA when it comes to air travel and housing,
>>>>> but
>>>>> the service-dog issue is posing special problems for airlines,
>>>>> especially
>>>>> those that no longer allow pets in the cargo hold.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Many passengers falsely believe that the ADA covers air travel and are
>>>>> surprised to learn they must abide by the stricter rules of the Air
>>>>> Carrier
>>>>> Access Act if they want to fly with their dog. Unlike the ADA, the Air
>>>>> Carrier Access Act allows airlines to require passengers with
>>>>> emotional
>>>>> support and psychiatric service dogs to prove they are disabled and
>>>>> that
>>>>> their dog is trained to assist them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Many airlines require a letter on the letterhead of a licensed
>>>>> psychiatrist,
>>>>> psychologist or clinical social worker stating that the passenger
>>>>> has a
>>>>> medically recognized mental or emotional disability and is under the
>>>>> professional's care. The letter must be dated within one year of the
>>>>> flight
>>>>> and also include the state in which the professional is licensed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "People are going to be hard pressed to get psychologists and
>>>>> psychiatrists
>>>>> to sign letters," Ensminger said. "I think this is an area where we
>>>>> are
>>>>> going to see a lot of friction."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nevertheless, there are enough passengers trying to board with
>>>>> emotional
>>>>> support and psychiatric service dogs - which fly in the cabin for
>>>>> free -
>>>>> that agents at ticket counters have been provided written guidelines
>>>>> on the
>>>>> law and the U.S. Department of Transportation has opened up
>>>>> rule-making for
>>>>> changes in rules on allowing such dogs on planes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ensminger owns a therapy dog, which is trained to go to schools,
>>>>> hospitals,
>>>>> nursing homes and other institutions to comfort and offer
>>>>> companionship.
>>>>> Therapy dogs are not protected by the ADA or the Air Carriers Act and
>>>>> although he knows he could pass her off as a service dog and fly with
>>>>> her to
>>>>> his winter home in Arizona, he does not. Instead, he drives the 2,600
>>>>> miles.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "To be honest, I've been tempted," Ensminger said. "But she is a
>>>>> therapy
>>>>> dog, not a service dog."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When it comes to allowing service animals in condos and apartments
>>>>> with
>>>>> no-pet or weight-limit rules, the ADA is again trumped by another
>>>>> federal
>>>>> law - the Fair Housing Act.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike the ADA, which defines dogs and occasionally miniature
>>>>> horses as
>>>>> service animals, the FHA is broader and protects other species, such
>>>>> as cats
>>>>> and birds.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as restaurants and airlines are seeing more unqualified service
>>>>> dogs,
>>>>> landlords and condo associations say tenants are seeking exceptions
>>>>> for
>>>>> their pets under the FHA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "The trend has gone up and down since this service dog issue first
>>>>> arose,"
>>>>> said West Palm Beach attorney John Sheppard, who specializes in
>>>>> condominium
>>>>> and homeowner association litigation. "When it initially came up,
>>>>> there was
>>>>> a fairly high standard the owner had to meet to keep the dog."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those standards loosened and "if they could show a doctor's
>>>>> prescription
>>>>> saying they needed a dog for some reason, that was enough to pass
>>>>> muster,"
>>>>> Sheppard said. The pendulum is swinging back and now condominium
>>>>> associations can ask specific questions about the disability and
>>>>> how the
>>>>> animal assists, Sheppard said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, he said, "There are people who come in and have a dog and they
>>>>> say,
>>>>> 'It's my sister's dog. I'm just watching it.' Then they come out
>>>>> and say
>>>>> they have a disability."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a solution?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Corey Hudson, secretary of Assistance Dogs International, which has a
>>>>> well-known accreditation program that sets minimum standards for
>>>>> behavior
>>>>> and training, suggests some form of government-sanctioned
>>>>> certification for
>>>>> service dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "We all get drivers' licenses after somebody impartially figures out
>>>>> that
>>>>> you are capable of driving," Hudson said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ensminger sees problems with that approach. Who will set those
>>>>> standards and
>>>>> how much will credentials cost? Professionally trained service dogs
>>>>> can cost
>>>>> more than $20,000. Each dog is individually trained to meet the
>>>>> specific
>>>>> needs of its owner's disabilities. Many people with disabilities
>>>>> are on
>>>>> limited budgets and train their dogs themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "What I'm afraid of is that if the government doesn't want to get
>>>>> in the
>>>>> business and turns it over to private entities, that will mean people
>>>>> will
>>>>> essentially have to pay a significant amount of money to some
>>>>> organization
>>>>> that will bless their service dog," Ensminger said. "I see that as
>>>>> a big
>>>>> problem."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rappaport, who herself trained Macy and Milo, has her own solution:
>>>>> confronting pet owners and businesses when she encounters misbehaving
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> wearing service dog vests.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "These people should be grateful they don't have a disability,"
>>>>> Rappaport
>>>>> said. "Do they think we want to be disabled so we can take our dogs
>>>>> anywhere? Don't they realize we would trade our service dogs to get
>>>>> rid of
>>>>> our disabilities?"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Service dog laws
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Three federal laws grant service dogs special privileges:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Americans with Disabilities Act: Gives service dogs access to public
>>>>> places,
>>>>> such as restaurants, stores and offices. Owner may not be questioned
>>>>> about
>>>>> disability but may be asked about the tasks the dog performs.
>>>>> Harnesses or
>>>>> leashes must be worn at all times unless it interferes with the dog's
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Air Carrier Act: Enables service dogs to fly in cabin of airplane.
>>>>> Passengers with emotional support or psychiatric service dogs may be
>>>>> asked
>>>>> to provide proof of disability and treatment from mental health
>>>>> professional.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fair Housing Act: Allows people with disabilities to keep
>>>>> emotional-support
>>>>> animals, even when landlord's or association's policy prohibits pets.
>>>>> Allows
>>>>> limited questioning about disability and animal support.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Types of support animals
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Federal laws give access privileges to service dogs, including
>>>>> guide and
>>>>> hearing dogs. Therapy dogs and emotional support animals can be denied
>>>>> access to public places, airplanes and housing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Guide dogs: Highly disciplined and trained service dogs. Assist blind
>>>>> and
>>>>> visually impaired people by avoiding obstacles, stopping at curbs and
>>>>> steps,
>>>>> and negotiating traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hearing dogs: Service dogs trained to alert the deaf and hard of
>>>>> hearing to
>>>>> common sounds, such as a doorbell, telephone, baby crying or smoke
>>>>> alarm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Service dogs: Provide assistance unrelated to vision or hearing
>>>>> disabilities. Individually trained to meet unique physical, medical or
>>>>> psychiatric needs of owner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Therapy dogs: Provide comfort and companionship to people in
>>>>> hospitals,
>>>>> nursing homes and other institutions. To encourage petting and avoid
>>>>> confusion with service dogs, often do not wear vests seen on service
>>>>> dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Emotional support animal: Domesticated animals - not necessarily dogs
>>>>> - that
>>>>> provide therapeutic companionship and affection. No training required
>>>>> beyond
>>>>> that of a pet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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