[nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.

Thu Nov 29 20:47:17 UTC 2012

What exactly was the issue back in the 1970's?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:37 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.

I was the person, and we had pickets at FAA and a variety of things. It reminded me of those days, too, and I have to admit to having been quite amazed.

CL

On Nov 28, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:

> When I became aquainted with NFB and Braille Monitor and there were lots of articles about blind folks being forced to sit in bulkhead and not being allowed to sit in exit aisle on planes.  I could be off a few years but it was in the '70s and early 1980s as well.  This whole discussion about the person who Southwest Airlines made to sit in bulkhead seats reminded me of this "blast from the past".  I remember when that was a great place to sit with a guide dog - very roomy.  I could stretch my legs out straight ahead and barely touch the bulkhead wall!  Not any more with all the downsizing the airlines do nowadays.
> 
> Lyn and Landon
> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 10:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.
> 
> 
>> What happened with airlines in 1975? I really don't know, anybody want to share?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.
>> 
>> Yeah, Bunny, funny thiing about how this never seems to end.  I remember the
>> fight the NFB had with the airlines over seating of blind customers - I
>> think it was back in 1975 or so.
>> 
>> You said something about people doing stuff and we stand up to them only to
>> get slapped sown by being accused of being disruptive and yelling.  Hey,
>> this very thing is going on at my blind center.  Oh well, life goes on.
>> 
>> Bunny, I sent you more on this privately.
>> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bunny Davidson" <bunnydavidson at live.com>
>> To: "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 11:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> SORRY to hear you were so hassled Cindy Lou...the FAA has a page on
>>> regulations
>>> and i had to look it up years ago when i was similarly strong-armed and
>>> discriminated against.
>>> How come whenever 'we' try to stand up for our rights, no matter how loud
>>> we are or aren't
>>> we get accused of 'disruption' and/or 'yelling'?
>>> 
>>> i recommend looking up the faa page @ guide dogs and print it out, and
>>> mail it to ceo of southwest
>>> with copy of your emial post you sent us...
>>> 
>>> see what they do...
>>> 
>>> blessings...
>>> bunny
>>>> From: info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:22:22 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.
>>>> 
>>>> I continue to be amazed at the number of airline personnel who think we
>>>> MUST
>>>> sit in the bulkhead row.  THIS IS NOT TRUE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
>>>> There
>>>> are no FAA regulations which require this, and the ACAA does not mandate
>>>> it
>>>> either.
>>>> 
>>>> I also continue to be amazed at the number of schools that continue to
>>>> tell
>>>> the airlines the best place for guide dogs in in the bulkhead row.
>>>> 
>>>> Very few dogs really take up so much room that they need to sit in these
>>>> front rows.  Most ALL of us can train our guides to go under the seats in
>>>> front of us.  The dogs really are comfortable there and they are MUCH
>>>> safer
>>>> in non-bulkhead rows.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:23 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] You are required to sit in the bulkhead.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't understand what you are saying here. Do you mean you flew
>>>> Southwest
>>>> and got a tray table in the bulkhead?
>>>> 
>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 24, 2012, at 7:18 PM, rhonda cruz wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> > hello i have used to fly two times with mya. and i got a tray table.
>>>> > and mya can fit under the chair.
>>>> > vary well.
>>>> > she falls a sleep.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Cindy Ray wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> I thought this was old news until I went to Houston Monday night. I
>>>> >> flew
>>>> on Southwest Airlines. They have open seating. I got on early, but there
>>>> were a number of folks getting on then, so I elected the bulkhead row as
>>>> requested. Bear in mind that previously I had flown not less than four
>>>> flights where this was not an issue. When I boarded in Chicago, the crew
>>>> member said that I was required to sit in the bulkhead. I told him that I
>>>> was not required to sit there. (I wanted a tray table.) He said that I
>>>> was,
>>>> and I asked him why. He responded that this was because of the dog. I
>>>> told
>>>> him that I had done a lot of flying, and I knew for a fact that I was not
>>>> required to sit there. However, I was going to arrive in Houston late, so
>>>> I
>>>> decided to get with it. I said I would, but I knew that I was not
>>>> required
>>>> to. The service agent came on board and told me I was required to sit
>>>> there.
>>>> (I had now fastened my seatbelt.) I said I was sitting there, but he
>>>> would
>>>> have to show me that this was required, and he said I could find it on
>>>> their
>>>> web site. Then he said that I was not to argue with a crew member and
>>>> could
>>>> be removed from the flight if I persisted. I said that I was not arguing,
>>>> I
>>>> was just stating that I am not required to sit there.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A little later, a woman came on board, and she verified that I was
>>>> correct in stating that I need not ride there, but their concern was that
>>>> the dog couldn't be made to fold small enough. Their seating areas aren't
>>>> ample, but I think it can be done. I would have been willing to try other
>>>> seats to see if we could work it out, but by then I was a little tired of
>>>> the whole thing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Friday, I returned. When I boarded in Houston, armed with the
>>>> >> knowledge
>>>> that I don't have to sit in the bulkhead, I began to head back farther in
>>>> the cabin. A crew member said that I was required to sit in the bulkhead
>>>> with the dog, and I said I wasn't required to do that, that just Monday a
>>>> woman at their airlines had agreed with me. But again, I did not want to
>>>> hasslwe with it too much, but I did want to sit elsewhere. He said he was
>>>> going to talk to his supervisor, and I suggested that he not bother with
>>>> it.
>>>> I put my bag up above and sat in the required location. Chris came on
>>>> board,
>>>> and she told me I was required to sit there. I said, fine, but I had done
>>>> a
>>>> lot of flying and hadn't received this kind of treatment from an airlines
>>>> in
>>>> years. She said that planes vary. Well, duyh. I told her just about the
>>>> only
>>>> place he couldn't ride was the two and one planes where there is just one
>>>> seat down the aisle on the right as you go in. I don't even remember all
>>>> she
>>>> said, but she said I needed to not be yelling at crew members. I said to
>>>> her
>>>> that I had not been, and I hadn't. She it had been reported by other
>>>> passengers and passengers panic. I said I had not been, alhtough by then
>>>> I
>>>> was tempted, and I told her I was so done with the topic right now and
>>>> pretty much done with Southwest. She told me I wasn't being cooperative.
>>>> I'm
>>>> not sure where that came from because I was in the bulkhead with the
>>>> seatbelt fastened. I told her I really wouldn't mind being there, but I
>>>> really wanted to sit where I can have a tray table. Those planes don't
>>>> have
>>>> any, not even in the arms of the seats. So she then said she was going to
>>>> talk with the captain. Nothing ever came of that, and I really felt that
>>>> intimidation tactics had been used. The rest of the flight was without
>>>> incident since I didn't have to change in Chicago to return to Des
>>>> Moines.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The Southwest planes are small, as I said, and I suspect that really
>>>> >> this
>>>> is the most comfortable place for my particular dog as he is rather
>>>> large,
>>>> though not mamoth. Here is what I found at their web site concerning
>>>> bringing service dogs into the flight:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Trained Assistance Animals
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Southwest Airlines welcomes trained assistance animals on all of our
>>>> flights. Except when too large to be safely accommodated, a trained
>>>> assistance animal traveling with and providing assistance to a Customer
>>>> with
>>>> a disability will be accommodated in the aircraft cabin. In accordance
>>>> with
>>>> federal safety regulations, the animal must be positioned so as not to
>>>> obstruct Customers' expeditious evacuation in the unlikely event of an
>>>> emergency.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Now, I get this, and if I had sat in another seat where it made it
>>>> >> more
>>>> than inconvenient for the seats to be shared by other passengers, I would
>>>> be
>>>> glad to consent to the bulkhead, but I believe it is not a requirement.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Cindy Lou
>>>> >> \
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> m
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
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> 
> 
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