[nagdu] newspaper practice at TSE was Re: First dog concerns

Fri Sep 7 02:11:28 UTC 2012

I agree, O&M skills are essential in order to get and properly work a dog.  but in this case, the dog was bopped with a newspaper, and accidentally hit in the eye.  

As you see in the previous message, it has caused problems.  I agree that people leash correct their dogs for their own faults, but seriously, there is no reason to strike a dog so close to their eyes.  The top of their heads, I can see, but so close to the eyes.  

I will not apologize for my view on that practice.  

Jenny
On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Tina Thomas wrote:

> Hello Jenny- 
> First of all a leash correction would be inappropriate and ineffective in
> teaching a dog traffic training. Seeing Eye does use a soft foam bopper with
> a foam ball attached to it. Now if the dog gets to close to the moving
> object, the dog gets a bop on the nose. A leash correction would not work in
> this situation for many reasons, one being that it would be too little to
> late and both handler and dog would be seriously injured and or killed.
> Also, I have seen  a common trend amongst dog handlers these days where the
> dog is held responsible for every infraction that takes place with the team.
> Now I don't know if this is due to poor O&M/cane skills or lack of
> confidence  on the part of the handlers, but I find this to be very
> disturbing. Situations such as crossing a street and dealing with on coming
> traffic is a everyday occurrence no matter if using a cane and or dog. Think
> about it like this if one is crossing the street with a cane and a car is
> coming at you and you have the walk signal,  what  would be your natural
> reaction. Well the same concept applies with crossing the street with a dog.
> Now there are certain intersections that have turn lanes as well as right on
> red is legal, so we as handlers have to know what kinds of intersections we
> will encounter as well as use our hearing as well as good judgment when
> crossing streets and not just depend on the dog to bail us out if we make a
> bad call. The dog is not human nor are they backups for poor travel skills.
> We are a team and sometimes we due make bad calls and the dog can assist us
> either by  backing up in the street and or not coming off the curb when
> given the forward command. This is why I believe that O&M/cane  travel
> skills are invaluable. 
> As for Seeing Eye's method on traffic training it is appropriate and very
> affective and top notch and it's going to stay that way.  Also, SE would
> never send someone home with a dog who exhibited traffic fears no matter how
> big or small. That dog would be career changed. 
> Tina and K 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 4:12 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] newspaper practice at TSE was Re: First dog concerns
> 
> Jenny, 
> 
> Its okay for you to disagree with a school on their practices. It would be
> interesting to hear what the newspaper thing really is. It must be a new
> practice, as when I was there that never happened. I am not saying its right
> or wrong, but perhaps if we know more of how its done and how then maybe it
> won't sound so bad. 
> 
> 
> 
> Marsha drenthSent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Jenny Keller <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> OK, 
>> 
>> Please don't think I'm trying to flame a school of anything.  but I DO NOT
> believe in hitting a dog with anything.  that's what a leash correction is
> for!
>> 
>> In my opinion, and remember that I said that.  the practice of hitting
> your dog with anything, even a newspaper, is barbaric.  also, in this
> situation, someone can be just a hair off, and do exactly what had been done
> to this dog and cause serious psychological and confidence issues.  Which
> seems to be the case here.
>> 
>> Just my opinion,
>> 
>> Jenny
>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Cindy Ray wrote:
>> 
>>> That is a part of their training that they always receive. That's how
> they learn about traffic checks.
>>> 
>>> Cindy Lou
>>> 
>>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 3:30 PM, Criminal Justice Major wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi, all,
>>>> One question I have to ask is that when Chris H was in training and the
> dog got too close in trafic, why was a rolled up newspaper used?
>>>> *Am curious*
>>>> I figure something like that would definitely not only traumatize the
> dog, but wouldn't it lower confidence?
>>>> Bibi
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>> 
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