[nagdu] First dog concerns

[Meghan Whalen]

I am curious how it is possible to justify bopping a dog in one place 
and not another, a tap is a tap is a tap wherever it is done.  I 
honestly think that tapping the top of the dog's head would be much 
worse for many reasons, including that the trainer has to reach up and 
past the dog's eyes and would probably aim poorly more often.  Also, the 
point of the nose/snout bopping is that the dog's nose is the first 
thing to get too close to the car.  Waiting for the dog's head to get in 
range would be far too close to the car, like on top of it and making 
contact.  They get the dog on the muzzle, not the tender part of the 
nose.  Regardless, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and this 
is why there are options as to what program to go to to obtain a guide.  
Most other schools don't use this method if any others do, but it has 
also been said many times that TSE's traffic training bests most 
others.  Like others have said, if one perfectly harmless tap is what it 
takes to insure safety, I am okay with it.  Traffic training is a very 
physical process in which the dogs learn to have a deep respect for what 
the vehicles can do to them.  I have been a part of the process more 
than once, and that part of training is what makes or breaks the dog.





On 9/7/2012 8:34 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
> I don't agree with the newspaper thing, which the writer said was used.
>
> I don't like Southeastern's methods either having been through what I've gone through with them.  But they use the tapping on the obstacles and a leash correction and a tap of the foot on a missed step of curb and the command watch when they are training the dog.
>
> I don't think any dog should be struck on the nose with anything.
>
> there was a woman that I went to school with, which one of the people on the list knows, but maybe does not know this about her first dog.  the dog was very unruly, and they tried everything from prong and pinch collars.  No matter what they did, nothing worked.
>
> southeastern does not use gentle leaders or haul ties, so they didn't do that.  the dog was discovered to have a bad tooth, and they thought that was why he was acting so bad.  this was three weeks into the class.  When the vet x-rayed the dog's mouth to find out how bad the tooth was, it was discovered that the dog's NOSE, and you read that right, nose, was broken, and no one, not the trainers, or anyone, knew about it.
>
> It had been corrected, and corrected, and corrected, as firmly as possible with many different collars and strengths.  But the real problem was that the dog had to be in excruciating pain.
>
> You can bop a dog in the head with a soft instrument.  But the nose?  There is no excuse for that at all, and I consider that abuse.
>
> Jenny
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:45 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I mean, don't some schools at least train obstacle avoidance by smacking the object ( not the dog! ) so that the dog associates the obstacle with a loud unpleasant noise, thus avoiding it in the future? Or, if that's not possible, say a dog in early-ish training is going to run her handler into a glass window, the trainer ( the dog isn't placed yet, just in training ) will either use a sharp vocal correction or slap her or his leg, making the dog-in-training avoid that window or similar ones in the future? Or is that all outdated training now?
>>
>> I didn't like hearing that The Seeing Eye was hitting dogs with newspapers, but if they're using a foam ball type thing, I don't think that would hurt the dog. I wonder if more traffic training done by the trainers could eliminate the need for this? But when I think about it, and dogs playing sure do hit each other a lot harder than a gentle tap! And if it saves the life of both human and dog, I don't see anything wrong with a foam type thing tapping a dog to teach or reinforce to the dog - don't approach that car in the street!!
>>
>> Ava and Cocoa
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 5:14 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> No worries!  They NEVER harm a dog doing this to teach traffic to our dogs. TSE uses a padded wand - they showed it to us - and give a very quick poke. The dog is startled by this because they don't expect it and they learn to watch for cars. Don't know what other schools use to teach this.
>>>
>>> Years ago, dog or animal training was much more harsh and even what we would currently call abusive.  Over the years training has gotten much gentler and the dogs are not harmed during their training.  They don't even have to do this to every dog - only the harder ones who don't respond to less in-their-face type of training.
>>>
>>> Teaching respect for moving traffic is truely a life-or-death thing and the dogs MUST learn this so we are safe with being guided by them.  Actually, the dog thinks the CAR smacked them and never even realize that the trainer, who is driving, poked them with that wand! Any dog who can't learn traffic safely is dropped from the program.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
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