[nagdu] To the Owner Trainers On List

[Laurel]

Hey Robert,
I am not an owner trainer and don't really know what to do to owner
train a dog, but if it helps you, GDB goes through 8 phases of
training, and if it would ever help you I can send you descriptions of
each phase and maybe you can see the process for at least how they do
it. If you wanna contact me privately, feel free. My email is
laurel.stockard at gmail.com
Laurel and Stockard

On 9/24/12, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert, these are well thought out questions, so please don't be offended at
> this question. This is your first dog, yes? I struggle why you and so many
> are thinking to switch to training your own dogs? As I ask this question, it
> is absolutely no reflection on those who do train here. But I am wondering
> what plays into your desire to do this? Are you unhappy with your program
> dog? Do you believe you can do a better job of it? I know you have given
> some thought to this because of your questions, but I just wonder. I have
> liked the idea of doing this, and I can see that it would be neat to have a
> puppy that I'd chosen from the get-go and go through all of the training and
> growing pains. What makes a person decide they want to do that? As a general
> question, there are many on here who will have really wonderful answers, and
> you may, too. I do like the idea of it myself, but I can't fathom the amount
> of time required to "create from scratch" a guide-ready dog. So I am just
> curious, and sure not trying to change anyone's minds. Who knows, you all
> may sell me on wanting to do the same thing.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Robert Hooper wrote:
>
>> Hello All:
>>
>> I know, I know. Bailey is just about to turn three, so I should not be in
>> such a hurry to get rid of him; and I am not. I promise. So, with that
>> disclaimer out of the way.
>> I am leaning more and more toward owner training my next guide. I have
>> picked the breed I wish to train-the King shepherd. If you are unfamiliar
>> with the breed, information (including breed standards) can be found at
>> http://www.kingshepherd.com
>> Information is also available on Wikipedia and other Dog Breed info
>> websites, so I will not explain much further. However, if anybody is
>> throwing his or her hands up in dismay of my breed choice, feel free to
>> speak up-if I am going to do this, I want to do it right. I have emailed
>> two breeders requesting more specific information as to how a king would
>> stand up to guide training. I also plan to visit a breeder and their
>> puppies to (1) get licked by adorableness and (2) get a tiny bit of
>> firsthand experience with the breed. All right, I am done with the breed
>> portion of this message-now on to the training parts.
>> I strongly believe in preparing well in advance for such a thing as owner
>> training-also, I find that it has become a tiny bit of an obsession of
>> mine. Julie (not sure if you spell that with a "Y" or "IE" and I am too
>> lazy to look), I have caught the bug about which you warned me earlier.
>> So, cutting to the chase, how does one "learn" to owner train? I am sure
>> you do not just obtain a puppy and start with a vague idea of what you
>> wish to accomplish and how you wish to accomplish it. Here are some things
>> I am considering. To start with, I am thinking of contacting professional
>> trainers for advice, as well as writing to you fine folks on list. I admit
>> that I will, if all of you are still around, be borrowing heavily from
>> your invaluable banks of knowledge and experience. In addition, I will
>> continue researching and reading various websites, blogs, and articles
>> about specific training techniques and philosophies. However, I would like
>> to find something a bit more involved and comprehensive-like a nice book;
>> and when I say "book", I do not mean a book with a title like "Dogs for
>> Dummies" or "quick and easy steps for training your new Puppy" or "PetCO's
>> guide to good Dogs". [Please note that I just made up these titles on the
>> fly-if such titles do exist, then I mentioned them purely as a
>> coincidence]
>> I am looking for in-depth explanations of dog behavior, cognition, and
>> training philosophies. Furthermore, I am not just looking for one book,
>> but several-even ones that contradict one another-so long as the author is
>> a credible and valid one who can demonstrate evidence for the claims they
>> make. Therefore, I am not looking for things like "Dog Training through
>> Energy Flow Manipulation".
>> Would you say that having previous experience with dog training is a
>> prerequisite for attempting to owner train a dog? If so, would being a
>> successful and responsible dog handler for the life of one dog give one
>> some of the necessary insights and foundation work to owner train the next
>> puppy? Julie, yours is the story I know the most, so I am going to pick on
>> you a bit. You said you owner trained your previous dog Bell. Before that,
>> did you have any dogs? Did you train any in any way, whether for
>> guide/service work or just basic obedience? Was and is your family deeply
>> or mildly involved in dog training or breeding, either as a profession or
>> as a hobby? Are you professionally involved in dog breeding or training?
>> Did you have to go through multiple puppies in order to find the right
>> one-i.e. what is your ratio of washouts to successful guides? Okay, I
>> think that is it for the eligibility section-and on to methods, part II
>> (remember my first inquiring post on the topic-if so, all of you will know
>> why I am calling this part "Methods, Part II").
>>
>> Time for hypothetical story mode. I have returned from Michigan with my
>> new two-3-month-old King Shepherd puppy. I have done some preparing ahead
>> of time, so I have in my home a dog bed, a size-adjustable crate, various
>> chew toys (other than my shoes), food, poop bags, leash, blah blah. I made
>> a beeline for the vet and my pup checks out perfectly in the health
>> department. Therefore, I start working on housebreaking, house manners,
>> crate training, and socialization with other dogs and people. I purchase
>> CD's (or mp3's) of various urban sound effects-car alarms, backfires,
>> sirens, crowds, trains, planes, thunder, you name it. I begin teaching the
>> basics-sit, down, rest, up, touch, come, heal, attack, bring cold beer
>> from fridge, etc. This I believe will be the easiest part-mostly exposure
>> and patience. I am given to understand that training methods for a very
>> young puppy differ a bit from training an older dog (let us assume that
>> "older" dog in this case means greater than 1 year old). For example,
>> positive reinforcement and redirection are emphasized far more than
>> physical correction. Okay, fine. Anybody want to elaborate? So now we skip
>> ahead to beginning guide work training. How did you people know what to
>> teach first? Did you call guide dog school dog trainers? Professional
>> trainers? Did you guess? Did you perhaps find it somewhere in a book?
>> Article? Magazine? Tea leaves? When I was in class training with Bailey, I
>> pressed the trainers relentlessly for details about their work. One of
>> them told me that the first thing they taught the dogs was how to pull in
>> harness. Do you people follow this model? So, assuming this is the first
>> thing I teach, what comes next? I would guess starting on a simple,
>> obstruction-free sidewalk and teaching the dog that it needs to stay on
>> the sidewalk. Then, maybe differentiating between left, suggested left,
>> right, and suggested right? Afterward, would I then keep the route simple
>> but increase the distraction level?
>> Let us assume that, for some crazy reason in some crazy universe, that I
>> am right. I then think that the next step would be to teach them to stop
>> at elevation changes-starting with steps, of course. I have taught Bailey
>> to differentiate between upstairs and downstairs, although I think this is
>> something that I would do in the "finishing" stage. The reason I think to
>> teach elevation first is that it seems as though it is simpler to teach a
>> dog elevation than to teach him to clear obstacles. However, I am sure I
>> am woefully wrong, and for obvious reasons that should excuse me from this
>> earth.
>> Next, in my bizarre, possibly wrong world of dog traindom, comes obstacle
>> clearance, first on the left (because dogs probably do not wish to plow
>> headfirst into a concrete abutment any more than I do) and then on the
>> right (because it is harder to teach a dog something that they think is
>> irrelevant to "little ole me"). Thoughts, anyone? How does one initially
>> train a dog to clear obstacles and stop at elevation changes? Once I
>> figure this out, onto overheads. I will ask just one question here-how?
>> All right, now time to teach the dog the thing for which guides are known,
>> the thing that sways many people from cane to dog-streets and traffic.
>> Once again, how? I have not access to a remote control vehicle, or access
>> to a driver's license. As such, I see no way to independently (and safely)
>> train a dog to be safe in the street. I should have the stopping at curbs
>> thing down nicely enough, but it is what happens between the curbs that
>> has me a bit stumped. Such a large thing to teach for the small amount of
>> time one spends in a street at any given moment. Julie, I read your
>> Wal-Mart shopping cart suggestion-this seems useful for moving object
>> clearance (people, etc.)-will it work for cars? How is Monty currently
>> traffic trained? Any other owner trainers train their dogs in traffic? If
>> not, then don't you think that not doing so would be a disadvantage?
>> Personally, I think a dog's traffic training is what sets it markedly
>> above cane travel, and as one who went to TSE, I highly value my dog's
>> traffic skills, and if I am going to owner train, I will require that my
>> dog be taught street safety.
>> Okay, now on to miscellaneous things-the smaller, more specific, but no
>> less important skills that can be taught either during foundation work or
>> during guide training completion. First-leave it. This is a command to get
>> the dog's attention. How does one teach that to the dog? My best guess
>> would be to offer a distraction, say "leave it", and correct the dog if he
>> ignores me, and then follow up with some sit-down-sit-rest obedience, and
>> repeat. However, this method would require one to start off the bat with a
>> physical correction, and I really would prefer not to do that. In
>> addition, I am not sure how effective such a method would be. So, how do
>> you owner trainers do it? In addition, how to you teach "hup-up" (go
>> faster) and "steady" (slow down)?
>> I am also interested in teaching my dog a "find" command that can be used
>> for everything from my iPhone to a slice of pizza. Has anyone successfully
>> managed this?
>> People distractions-Sometimes, Bailey is distracted by people, especially
>> familiar people. He is not usually distracted when in transit, but if I
>> am, say, waiting to meet someone at a bus stop, he will squeak and fidget
>> when that person arrives. I just keep him at a sit, and insist that he
>> remain quiet. He usually heeds a firm "quiet", but if he doesn't I will
>> give him a light leash correction and he will subside. I hope that my next
>> dog will be more toward the shepherd aloofness end of the continuum. If
>> not, then do you have any suggestions to curb their enthusiasm (hah,
>> unintentional TV reference)? I was thinking of recrewting some helpful
>> friends. After the pup gains some confidence with working, I will have
>> people make distracting noises at him (puckered lips, cooing, etc.). If he
>> tries to greet that person, they will clap sharply in front of his nose,
>> or make an unpleasant vocal sound. Using this method would make the puppy
>> think that the correction was associated with the person, not me. However,
>> at the same time, I do not want him to be overly wary toward people-I do
>> not want to be dealing with a dog that has fear aggression. I also want
>> him to accept other peoples' attention from time to time when
>> out-of-harness. My proposed distraction-teaching method was mostly
>> inspired by the way TSE does traffic training. They will poke the dog with
>> a foam-tipped wand if it gets too close to a vehicle. This lets the dog
>> associate the negative consequence with close proximity to a vehicle,
>> rather than the handler.
>> I was thinking that after he has the "don't approach or pay attention to
>> people" thing down, I would transfer the correction from the distractor to
>> me-via leash correction. For example, if someone distracts him 1/10 times,
>> I will give a leash correction rather than the distracting person. Let us
>> face it, John Q. Public is just going to reinforce his distraction, so I
>> will need to assume the responsibility for correction at some point
>> anyway. Sorry for being so long-winded about that topic-so how would you
>> deal with people distractions?
>>
>> All right, I think my novel is complete. Sorry if it is over long and
>> bloated, but I am very interested in finding answers to my questions and I
>> would love it so much if any of you could help me answer them. Also, to
>> any non-owner trainers reading, feel free to chime in if you have any
>> answers to my questions. I often feel as though handling a dog is next
>> door to training one, as a good handler will work hard to keep their dog's
>> skills intact. So do not feel excluded! Although this message is targeted
>> toward owner trainers (especially the parts about breed selection,
>> foundation work, puppy raising), there are plenty of puppy raisers and
>> long-time handlers here who could answer some of my questions as well.
>> Finally, if you do not feel as though you can convey the full extent of
>> your message via email, feel free to contact me via my cell phone, the
>> number to which is in my signature. I promise, I'm not trying to be
>> creepy; but if you don't feel like pounding out a message as long and
>> belabored as mine, then feel free to give me a ring. I have a busy
>> schedule, so do not be offended if I do not pick up-just leave me a voice
>> mail and I will be sure to ring you back.
>> If you have gotten this far, then I really do appreciate your time and
>> patience. If you have gotten this far and intend to respond to my message,
>> then Thanks for your willingness to share with me your wisdom and
>> knowledge, and for helping me to make a very hard (and potentially costly)
>> decision regarding my future and that of my mobility. I am sending virtual
>> hugs to all.
>> Most sincerely, and with warmest regards,
>> Robert Hooper
>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>> The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of
>> Neuroscience
>> 572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
>> Columbus, Ohio 43202
>> (740) 856-8195
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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