[nagdu] Elevator doors
Tracy Carcione
carcione at access.net
Mon Apr 1 12:40:56 UTC 2013
One of the things my husband hates about losing his sight is that now people
treat him like an idiot child, instead of the intelligent adult he is.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
> Hi Holly,
> I wanted to let you know that I said, "MOST sighted people..." and never
> implied that ALL sighted people were unhelpful or jerks. Just wanted to
> clarify you on that. I DO have sighted friends and they are helpful to
> one degree or another.
>
> During my life, I see the seemingly helpless blind people getting help
> alot more than I ever got. If I speak up and ask, I will get help most of
> the time - and that is fine with me as a masculine, independent type.
>
> As to the "blow-up sighted person in one's pocket" thing, this comes from
> statements from many sighted people like these scenerios: You are in an
> office where you need to fill out a form. The person behind the dest says,
> "Oh, I really don't have time - can't you bring a sighted friend?" Or you
> go to the doctor or pharmacy or whatever and you get, "Oh, you'll just
> have to come back tomorrow." This is after I spent an hour on two buses to
> get there. Then I'd get, "Oh, can't you get a friend to drive you?"
>
> Then you get the people who just let the door shut in your face or my
> dog's face. I chalk this up to the general rudeness that pervades society
> these days. I have never implied that all sighted people are jerks
> towards blind folks. You sound like one of the good folks that make me
> remember that there really are nice folks out there - which I do know
> exist. I do try to look on the positive side, but sometimes it all just
> gets old.
>
> Holly, as a sighted person, you don't see the times that we have to put up
> with this scenerio: Blind person is waiting at the curb to cross the
> street and a sighted person comes up and grabs the blind person and tries
> to propel the blind person across the street ahead of them. Or grabs the
> cane or dog's harness. Or grabs in their fingers a pinch of our
> clothing - much like picking up something disgusting - and tries to drag
> us to whereever. Then when the blind person objects, then that sighted
> person says,"Oh you have a bad attitude; all you blind people are so
> negative." You as a sighted person doesn't have to take these kinds of
> indignities every day. How about going to a job interview and being told
> by the interviewer, "Oh, I don't think you can do the job - well with your
> sight problem. I'm sure you can get a volunter job somewhere." Yeah, I
> also had someone tell me that there was no jobs for me and why not stay
> home with a hobby and the state taking care of me. We deal with so many
> ignorant and stupid attitudes about blindness and/or guide dogs and canes.
> We do get sick of it.
>
> So, that has no bearing on you as a nice, helpful lady. Sounds like your
> blind friends have educated you and I really do appreciate running into
> folks like you that I don't have to bother educating and it is like a
> breath of fresh air. I just want you to understand where I come from and
> don't want you to feel offended. If you want to be offended, find offense
> in what idiotic and antiquated attitudes that STILL linger in our society
> and cause the very high unemployment rates among us blind folks and us
> being marginalized in our communities. Help us educate the rest of
> society. Sighted people ALWAYS listen to other sighted people before
> they'll listen to us. Sorry for this, but after 62 years of crap, this is
> how I feel many times.
>
> I do realize that between our sighted and blind friends, things are
> getting better in regards to our guide dogs. I now hear parents telling
> their kids, "You can't play with that dog - it's a helping dog." Or even a
> kid telling the adults, "Mom! That is a helping guide dog - we had a
> person and their guide dog come to school today to tell us about the dog."
> This is a good thing. It brings a smile to my face and I say, "Thanks for
> knowing the right thing!" or, "Thanks for teaching your child!"
>
> Everyone, enjoy Easter today.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 4:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>
>
>>I dont know. I guess I have a different opinion here. I do not see
>> where anyone said that all sighted people are unwilling to help, but
>> even if someone did, that is their perception. Is this not a list
>> serve for guide dog users to voice their concerns and feelings about
>> using their guide dogs? If we start telling people that they are just
>> wrong and should not think or speak the way they do about heir
>> feelings and perceptions then we are doing a great inservice. Again, I
>> could not find where anyone said that and so I may have missed
>> something erroneous, but I do not think so. Eve
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:36 AM, d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Holly,
>>> You are an exception.
>>> it seems for the most part here, many are in a hurry to go no where, but
>>> the
>>> hurry just the same.
>>> You can be walking down the block where the sighted have to pass you,
>>> because you are to slow for them.
>>> The same is in the elevator.
>>> either they need the first cup of coffee or running to the restroom
>>> smile.
>>> Who knows.
>>> I understand where we are coming from.
>>> Glad you took notice to this message.
>>> Again you are the exception.
>>> Original message:
>>>
>>>> As a sighted person who has many friends who are blind and use guide
>>>> dogs,
>>>> I find it offensive that you call sighted people as not willing to
>>>> help.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am always willing to help anyone sighted or blind who is in an
>>>> elevator
>>>> by just using common courtesy. I hold the elevator door open for a
>>>> person
>>>> coming in or going out and if there is a guide dog present, I do the
>>>> same.
>>>> I know there are a lot of rude people out there but not all sighted
>>>> people
>>>> are rude.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think you should rephrase your sentence to say "some" sighted people
>>>> are
>>>> not willing to help instead of saying "most". I don't like to
>>>> categorize
>>>> groups of people and categorizing sighted people in this way is just as
>>>> bad
>>>> as categorizing blind people with the usual stereotypes.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you for allowing me to comment.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Holly
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sent from my Motorola DROID Razr
>>>> On Mar 28, 2013 2:42 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Some trainer said to use sighted people to help in elevators??? Huh???
>>>>> Where does that trainer work? What a totally crappy attitude. Oh, I
>>>>> get
>>>>> it - you're supposed to take that little blow-up sighted person out of
>>>>> your
>>>>> pocket and inflate him like Wiley Coyote after the Roadrunner rolls a
>>>>> rock
>>>>> on him. Hmmmm.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Yeah, Eve, I do elevators the same as you do. I have found that most
>>>>> sighted people don't want to lift a finger to help unless you are a
>>>>> sniveling, helpless-acting little cute blind girl - which I am not!
>>>>> So,
>>>>> I
>>>>> just "man up" and be independent and do stuff on my own. If I really
>>>>> do
>>>>> get into a jam, well I do get help then. Good grief! LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>>>> like
>>>>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez"
>>>>> <celticyaya at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS HERE. FIRST IT IS VERY EASY
>>>>> TO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> STAY NEAR THE BUTTONS AFTER PUSHING IT AND IF IT SEEMS THERE ARE A
>>>>>> LOT
>>>>>> OF PEOPLE COMING OFF, THEN PUT YOUR FINGER TO THE BUTTON TO HOLD THE
>>>>>> DOOR OR REOPEN IF IT STARTS TO CLOSE. WHEN WALKING INTO THE ELEVATOR,
>>>>>> IF IT STARTS TO CLOSE ON YOU, JUST PUT AN ARM UP TO STOP IT. MOST
>>>>>> ELEVATORS AFTER ALL OPEN FROM THE MIDDLE SO EITHER SIDE WILL WORK.
>>>>>> AND
>>>>>> AS FOR THE TRAINER SAYING TO RELY ON SIGHTED PEOPLE; WELL THAT IS
>>>>>> DAMN
>>>>>> RUDE. WE WANT INDEPENDENCE OR WE WOULD NOT BE GETTING GUIDE DOGS TO
>>>>>> WALK OURSELVES. SAME GOES FOR COMPUTER PROGRAMS AND BASICALLY
>>>>>> EVERYTHING ELSE. WHY MAKE THINGS ACCESSIBLE AND THEN TELL US TO FIND
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> SIGHTED PERSON FOR HELP. JUST MY THOUGHTS. BY THE WAY, I LOVE DOING
>>>>>> ELEVATORS. LOVE HOW TAYLOR TAKES ME TO THE BUTTONS NO MATTER WHERE
>>>>>> THEY ARE SITUATED AND THEN BACKS UP TO SEE WHICH DOOR WILL OPEN
>>>>>> FIRST.
>>>>>> SHE IS A REAL DOLL. EVEN IF SHE IS CURRENTLY BEING NAUGHTY BY BARKING
>>>>>> AT THE DOGS OUTSIDE. BLESSED BE. EVE
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Sherri <flmom2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> They do the same on escalators too, just get off and stand there
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> people pile up behind them.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:34 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> One problem I have consistently noticed is that when you are with
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> blind people they go ahead and get off and then stop. It never
>>>>>>> fails
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> amaze me! know one behind them can get out before the door closes.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> always put my hand over the door now so it can't close and then hold
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> until my dog is clear. I wish people would remember they have to go
>>>>>>> left or
>>>>>>> right because there is often a wall in front of you, and then figure
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> where to go from there. riginal Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:03 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> I remember having this same problem. I think the sensors are set at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>> waist height not dog height.
>>>>>>>> I never found a good solution. And Dar is right, a sighted person
>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>> always hold the door. Either there isn't one around, or they aren't
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of d m gina
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:52 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Tracy,
>>>>>>>> Seeing eye and I had a fight over this one. the lady I argued with
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> Kim.
>>>>>>>> At this time or shall I say that time she was an apprintes.
>>>>>>>> I like putting the dog on the opposite side of the closing door on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> elevator.
>>>>>>>> Then my back side gets hit with the door not the dog.
>>>>>>>> I was forever told, seeing eye doesn't do this.
>>>>>>>> I said, they do now.
>>>>>>>> I was told a sighted person would always hold the door.
>>>>>>>> My reply was,
>>>>>>>> In your dreams.
>>>>>>>> She didn't like that either.
>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have been having trouble with elevator doors. The elevators in
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> office building close very fast. I try to put my hand on the door
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> stop it closing, but it's tricky to hold the door and keep myself
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Ben both out of the way of the people getting out. Once in a
>>>>>>>>> while,
>>>>>>>>> some thoughtful person will hold the door for me, but other times,
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> the people get out and the door starts to close, so Ben refuses to
>>>>>>>>> start in, wisely enough, and I end up waiting for the next one and
>>>>>>>>> hoping
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> I can get in before it closes.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's pretty annoying.
>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dmgina%40samobile.n<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dmgina%40samobile.n>
>>>>>>>>> et
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c>
>>>>>>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> jbrew48%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Julie Phillipson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> flmom2006%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> linda.gwizdak%40cox.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> holly.b.kaczmarski%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/holly.b.kaczmarski%40gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --Dar
>>> skype: dmgina23
>>> FB: dmgina
>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>> every saint has a past
>>> every sinner has a future
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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