[nagdu] note from the Moderator was Re: Elevator doors

Marsha Drenth marsha.drenth at gmail.com
Mon Apr 1 13:41:01 UTC 2013 

AAAll, 

Although this thread about our thoughts of sighted and blind persons and the help we are given or not given has been interesting. Lets try to remember that everyone has their opinion, and the right to their opinion, and a right to express that opinion on this list. No one hhas bashed anyone. further, this is not eentirely guide dog related, its on the eddge of being relavent for this list. Channge the subject, and go back to guide dog issues. 

Thank you, 

Marsha drenth, NAGDU List Moderator, who is also sick *frown* 
Sent with my IPhone 

On Apr 1, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> wrote:

> One of the things my husband hates about losing his sight is that now people treat him like an idiot child, instead of the intelligent adult he is.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
> 
> 
>> Hi Holly,
>> I wanted to let you know that I said, "MOST sighted people..." and never implied that ALL sighted people were unhelpful or jerks.  Just wanted to clarify you on that.  I DO have sighted friends and they are helpful to one degree or another.
>> 
>> During my life, I see the seemingly helpless blind people getting help alot more than I ever got.  If I speak up and ask, I will get help most of the time - and that is fine with me as a masculine, independent type.
>> 
>> As to the "blow-up sighted person in one's pocket" thing, this comes from statements from many sighted people like these scenerios:  You are in an office where you need to fill out a form. The person behind the dest says, "Oh, I really don't have time - can't you bring a sighted friend?" Or you go to the doctor or pharmacy or whatever and you get, "Oh, you'll just have to come back tomorrow." This is after I spent an hour on two buses to get there.  Then I'd get, "Oh, can't you get a friend to drive you?"
>> 
>> Then you get the people who just let the door shut in your face or my dog's face.  I chalk this up to the general rudeness that pervades society these days.  I have never implied that all sighted people are jerks towards blind folks.  You sound like one of the good folks that make me remember that there really are nice folks out there - which I do know exist.  I do try to look on the positive side, but sometimes it all just gets old.
>> 
>> Holly, as a sighted person, you don't see the times that we have to put up with this scenerio:  Blind person is waiting at the curb to cross the street and a sighted person comes up and grabs the blind person and tries to propel the blind person across the street ahead of them.  Or grabs the cane or dog's harness.  Or grabs in their fingers a pinch of our clothing - much like picking up something disgusting - and tries to drag us to whereever. Then when the blind person objects, then that sighted person says,"Oh you have a bad attitude; all you blind people are so negative." You as a sighted person doesn't have to take these kinds of indignities every day.  How about going to a job interview and being told by the interviewer, "Oh, I don't think you can do the job - well with your sight problem.  I'm sure you can get a volunter job somewhere."  Yeah, I also had someone tell me that there was no jobs for me and why not stay home with a hobby and the state taking care of me.  We deal with so many ignorant and stupid attitudes about blindness and/or guide dogs and canes. We do get sick of it.
>> 
>> So, that has no bearing on you as a nice, helpful lady.  Sounds like your blind friends have educated you and I really do appreciate running into folks like you that I don't have to bother educating and it is like a breath of fresh air.  I just want you to understand where I come from and don't want you to feel offended.  If you want to be offended, find offense in what idiotic and antiquated attitudes that STILL linger in our society and cause the very high unemployment rates among us blind folks and us being marginalized in our communities.  Help us educate the rest of society. Sighted people ALWAYS listen to other sighted people before they'll listen to us.  Sorry for this, but after 62 years of crap, this is how I feel many times.
>> 
>> I do realize that between our sighted and blind friends, things are getting better in regards to our guide dogs.  I now hear parents telling their kids, "You can't play with that dog - it's a helping dog." Or even a kid telling the adults, "Mom!  That is a helping guide dog - we had a person and their guide dog come to school today to tell us about the dog." This is a good thing.  It brings a smile to my face and I say, "Thanks for knowing the right thing!" or, "Thanks for teaching your child!"
>> 
>> Everyone, enjoy Easter today.
>> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 4:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>> 
>> 
>>> I dont know. I guess I have a different opinion here. I do not see
>>> where anyone said that all sighted people are unwilling to help, but
>>> even if someone did, that is their perception. Is this not a list
>>> serve for guide dog users to voice their concerns and feelings about
>>> using their guide dogs? If we start telling people that they are just
>>> wrong and should not think or speak  the way they do about heir
>>> feelings and perceptions then we are doing a great inservice. Again, I
>>> could not find where anyone said that and so I may have missed
>>> something erroneous, but I do not think so. Eve
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:36 AM, d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Holly,
>>>> You are an exception.
>>>> it seems for the most part here, many are in a hurry to go no where, but the
>>>> hurry just the same.
>>>> You can be walking down the block where the sighted have to pass you,
>>>> because you are to slow for them.
>>>> The same is in the elevator.
>>>> either they need the first cup of coffee or running to the restroom smile.
>>>> Who knows.
>>>> I understand where we are coming from.
>>>> Glad you took notice to this message.
>>>> Again you are the exception.
>>>> Original message:
>>>> 
>>>>> As a sighted person who has many friends who are blind and use guide dogs,
>>>>> I find it offensive that you call sighted people as not willing to help.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I am always willing to help anyone sighted or blind who is in an elevator
>>>>> by just using common courtesy. I hold the elevator door open for a person
>>>>> coming in or going out and if there is a guide dog present, I do the same.
>>>>> I know there are a lot of rude people out there but not all sighted people
>>>>> are rude.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I think you should rephrase your sentence to say "some" sighted people are
>>>>> not willing to help instead of saying "most". I don't like to categorize
>>>>> groups of people and categorizing sighted people in this way is just as
>>>>> bad
>>>>> as categorizing blind people with the usual stereotypes.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you for allowing me to comment.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Holly
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my Motorola DROID Razr
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2013 2:42 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Some trainer said to use sighted people to help in elevators??? Huh???
>>>>>> Where does that trainer work?  What a totally crappy attitude.  Oh, I get
>>>>>> it - you're supposed to take that little blow-up sighted person out of
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> pocket and inflate him like Wiley Coyote after the Roadrunner rolls a
>>>>>> rock
>>>>>> on him.  Hmmmm.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah, Eve, I do elevators the same as you do.  I have found that most
>>>>>> sighted people don't want to lift a finger to help unless you are a
>>>>>> sniveling, helpless-acting little cute blind girl - which I am not! So,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> just "man up" and be independent and do stuff on my own.  If I really do
>>>>>> get into a jam, well I do get help then.  Good grief! LOL!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
>>>>>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS HERE. FIRST IT IS VERY EASY TO
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> STAY NEAR THE BUTTONS AFTER PUSHING IT AND IF IT SEEMS THERE ARE A LOT
>>>>>>> OF PEOPLE COMING OFF, THEN PUT YOUR FINGER TO THE BUTTON TO HOLD THE
>>>>>>> DOOR OR REOPEN IF IT STARTS TO CLOSE. WHEN WALKING INTO THE ELEVATOR,
>>>>>>> IF IT STARTS TO CLOSE ON YOU, JUST PUT AN ARM UP TO STOP IT. MOST
>>>>>>> ELEVATORS AFTER ALL OPEN FROM THE MIDDLE SO EITHER SIDE WILL WORK. AND
>>>>>>> AS FOR THE TRAINER SAYING TO RELY ON SIGHTED PEOPLE; WELL THAT IS DAMN
>>>>>>> RUDE. WE WANT INDEPENDENCE OR WE WOULD NOT BE GETTING GUIDE DOGS TO
>>>>>>> WALK OURSELVES. SAME GOES FOR COMPUTER PROGRAMS AND BASICALLY
>>>>>>> EVERYTHING ELSE. WHY MAKE THINGS ACCESSIBLE AND THEN TELL US TO FIND A
>>>>>>> SIGHTED PERSON FOR HELP. JUST MY THOUGHTS. BY THE WAY, I LOVE DOING
>>>>>>> ELEVATORS. LOVE HOW TAYLOR TAKES ME TO THE BUTTONS NO MATTER WHERE
>>>>>>> THEY ARE SITUATED AND THEN BACKS UP TO SEE WHICH DOOR WILL OPEN FIRST.
>>>>>>> SHE IS A REAL DOLL. EVEN IF SHE IS CURRENTLY BEING NAUGHTY BY BARKING
>>>>>>> AT THE DOGS OUTSIDE. BLESSED BE. EVE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Sherri <flmom2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They do the same on escalators too, just get off and stand there while
>>>>>>>> people pile up behind them.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:34 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One problem I have consistently noticed is that when you are with other
>>>>>>>> blind people   they go ahead and get off and then stop.  It never fails
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> amaze me!   know one behind them can get out before the door closes. I
>>>>>>>> always put my hand over the door now so it can't close and then hold it
>>>>>>>> until my dog is clear.  I wish people would remember they have to go
>>>>>>>> left or
>>>>>>>> right because there is often a wall in front of you, and then figure
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> where to go from there.  riginal Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:03 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I remember having this same problem. I think the sensors are set at
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>>> waist height not dog height.
>>>>>>>>> I never found a good solution. And Dar is right, a sighted person
>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>> always hold the door. Either there isn't one around, or they aren't
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of d m gina
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:52 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Elevator doors
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Tracy,
>>>>>>>>> Seeing eye and I had a fight over this one. the lady I argued with was
>>>>>>>>> Kim.
>>>>>>>>> At this time or shall I say that time she was an apprintes.
>>>>>>>>> I like putting the dog on the opposite side of the closing door on the
>>>>>>>>> elevator.
>>>>>>>>> Then my back side gets hit with the door not the dog.
>>>>>>>>> I was forever told, seeing eye doesn't do this.
>>>>>>>>> I said, they do now.
>>>>>>>>> I was told a sighted person would always hold the door.
>>>>>>>>> My reply was,
>>>>>>>>> In your dreams.
>>>>>>>>> She didn't like that either.
>>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have been having trouble with elevator doors.  The elevators in my
>>>>>>>>>> office building close very fast.  I try to put my hand on the door to
>>>>>>>>>> stop it closing, but it's tricky to hold the door and keep myself and
>>>>>>>>>> Ben both out of the way of the people getting out.  Once in a while,
>>>>>>>>>> some thoughtful person will hold the door for me, but other times,
>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> the people get out and the door starts to close, so Ben refuses to
>>>>>>>>>> start in, wisely enough, and I end up waiting for the next one and
>>>>>>>>>> hoping
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I can get in before it closes.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It's pretty annoying.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> dmgina%40samobile.n<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dmgina%40samobile.n>
>>>>>>>>>> et
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>>>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c>
>>>>>>>>> om
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> jbrew48%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jbrew48%40verizon.net>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Julie Phillipson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> flmom2006%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> celticyaya%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/celticyaya%40gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> linda.gwizdak%40cox.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> holly.b.kaczmarski%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/holly.b.kaczmarski%40gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dmgina%40samobile.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/celticyaya%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com

More information about the NAGDU mailing list