[nagdu] teaching the public

Mon Apr 8 15:28:20 UTC 2013

Ev, 
I do wonder why you canceled previous plans to do the talk? I wouldn't have
done that. I'm not a big fan of doing these talks.  Now that I've said this,
it can provide an opportunity for you to learn some very useful skills in a
nonthreatening environment.  Public speaking comes to mind.  Explaining new
concepts is another.  The stakes are low when you speak in these kinds of
environments. 
My suggestion is that unless you enjoy this for its own sake, or you are
using it as a way to improve a skill, you don't need to do these sorts of
presentations. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Eve Sanchez
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:12 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] teaching the public

There have been far too many extremely interesting posts to comment on them
all. I wish we could all sit together and yell out our answers with laughter
and irritation. One of the things that bugs me is when people give constant
instructions. Even the guy who invited me to participate in Saturdays event
to show the public how guide dogs work kept telling me of obstacles like
curbs, inclines etc. How do I get around without them? Oh yeah, that is what
the dog is for. Then there are those who do want you to follow them (like at
a medical
appointment) and keep hesitating to see if you are truly following or I have
even had some walk backwards so they could watch me. There was one guy at
the grocery store who was helping me find an item  and he was doing this. I
told him that my dog could follow him, so he asked what her name was. I gave
him her false name which is Totem and he preceeded to clap his hands and
call for Totem to cme to him.  I stopped and told him I will give her
directions and did not need help with this. He walked on, but kept pausing
to look at us. They have no trust in the dogs, so they have no trust in our
abilities to work with the dogs. It relates to why blind people cannot do
anything and need to stay home in seclusion all of the time. That was
another thing the guy on Saturday kep saying, "At least we are getting you
out of the house for a while." I didnt tell him that I had other plans I had
to gorego for him, but maybe I should have. Well, I am ranting and did not
intend to. I just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed so many of your
posts and comments and would really be pissed off if others started telling
me that my dog was a bad dog who couldn't work. You are all great people
with great dogs. You know what you do, and maybe that is enough. Blessings
and Light. Eve

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> Ben doesn't always follow well, and especially didn't when he was younger.
>  It's only a tiny part of his job; most of the time, we're on our own 
> and he has to use his initiative.  So naturally, when he could follow 
> someone, he's still thinking about what's the best way to go, in his 
> opinion.  I don't correct him for that.  I value his thinking, and 
> want to encourage his initiative. In the big picture, it's a lot more 
> useful to me than just following.  The people I'm with don't always
understand that, though.
> Tracy
>
>> yesterday was entertaining for me.
>> When we got to the buss door I put my hand on the door where he went 
>> on the wrong side of the door.
>> I shared with him it would be better to go up the steps.
>> People were laughing that he did this, saying he sure doesn't know much.
>> My reply was,
>> he wanted to look at you threw the window.
>> When mass was over, we started walking behind my brother in law, then 
>> he decided that he wanted to go out a different door.
>> A gentleman came up to me saying, did you want to go out the side door?
>> I said sure yes thanks,
>> My brother in law shared with me that I didn't have a good dog 
>> because he didn't follow me.
>> he usually does so he didn't pay attention to seee what the dog was
doing.
>> We both said, My dog has his own ideas.
>> Only he knows what they are.
>> When we go to mass during the week, we go threw the front door.
>> So I didn't feel it was necessary to correct, when he wanted to go 
>> out the front.
>> Gee why don't we say that to folks who have children, how bad they 
>> are because they don't behave in a crowd.
>> Now I don't believe this, where it is frustrating when I know I do 
>> have a swell dog.
>> Let me decide if my dog is good or bad, no one else needs to do this 
>> for me.
>> Original message:
>>> I am actually trying to ignore people talking to my dog. It is so 
>>> annoying that they do it anyway, but mostly I don't know that it 
>>> distracts him that much; if I think it is distracting him, I give 
>>> him a verbal reprimand to make sure he is on task; then when we have 
>>> successfully completed our task, I praise him for it.
>>
>>> CL
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:31 PM, d m gina wrote:
>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> As I was getting off the buss the new driver was talking to the dog.
>>>> I don't know when I will see this driver again, I know he will 
>>>> drive the buss every third week of the month.
>>>> I thought then I could ask for him to let the dog concentrate 
>>>> getting me off the buss.
>>>> How do you folks handle this.
>>>> I don't want the dog excited while I am trying to find the first 
>>>> step to step down three steps to the driveway.
>>>> I call my dog buddy then folks won't know his name.
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> I find that the adults are the ones who need to be taught. I tell 
>>>>> them that her harrness is like her work uniform and when she has 
>>>>> her uniform on she's working and needs to concentrate.  It usually 
>>>>> works.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 2:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] teaching the public
>>
>>
>>>>>> Julie, A lot of good advice for everyone. What I like and think I
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> take with me today, is the 'just ask' lesson. That is a very
>>>>>> important
>>>>>> lesson. When I was teaching, all of my kindergarteners knew that they
>>>>>> should never approach a dog they did not know without asking first.
>>>>>> Now-a-days I am often approached by children asking and I explain to
>>>>>> them why I do not allow her to be petted by others. They understand.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> also thank them for asking. The adults on the other hand just act and
>>>>>> never think to ask. I think, giving a lesson like this when in a
>>>>>> mixed
>>>>>> group is an excellent idea as it will teach the adults without them
>>>>>> thinking or realizing they are being taught. Well, gotta get ready
>>>>>> now. Thanks again for all of your great ideas. Eve
>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Eve,
>>
>>>>>>> I just did presentations for the Boy Scouts.  They had a
>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>> awareness day, which I think could use some improvement, but that's
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> post for another list.  Anyway I had only 10 minutes with each small
>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>> of boys.  I first explained that I'm blind, which means I need to
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> ways of doing things instead of looking at them.  This would seem
>>>>>>> obvious,
>>>>>>> but I've learned that a lot of people don't really get "blind".
>>>>>>> Then I
>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>> on to the two main ways blind people use to move about, cane or dog.
>>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> them that both methods work just fine and that every blind person
>>>>>>> has to
>>>>>>> figure out which they like or works best for them.  I introduce
>>>>>>> Monty,
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> was laying beside me.  I explain that when he is guiding me I hold
>>>>>>> onto
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> handle and walk a step behind his shoulders.  I feel which way he is
>>>>>>> moving
>>>>>>> from his shoulder movement, which travels through the harness
>>>>>>> handle.
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> is where I get a lot of odd questions.  I've found explaining it
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> dancing gets my point across about the best.  I explain that Monty
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>> if there's something he wants me to know about or if we can't go
>>>>>>> around,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> that I make all the choices of which way we are going.  People think
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> tell the dog "post office" and magically the dog takes you there.
>>
>>>>>>> Over the years I have simplified my list of guide dog rules down to
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> one, *ask*.  I think that one about covers it and if they can
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> one thing I hope it is that one thing.  I emphasize it a lot.  If
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to pet, ask.  If they want to give food, ask, If they want to talk
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> dog, ask.  Otherwise they should completely ignore the dog.  I think
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> just ask approach does a lot of things extremely simply.  If the
>>>>>>> kids are
>>>>>>> asking, then they are learning to view the blind person as the
>>>>>>> leader of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> team.  They are learning basic dog etiquette that will serve them
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> any sort of service dog team, police dog or even pets.  The just ask
>>>>>>> rule
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> extremely universal and flexible for any situation.  It allows each
>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>> to manage the situation as he/she sees fit.
>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes I let people pet, but usually not.  Either way I *always*
>>>>>>> smile
>>>>>>> and tell them "thank you for asking".
>>
>>>>>>> Then I take questions.  I don't do demonstrations unless I can't
>>>>>>> figure a
>>>>>>> way out of it gracefully.  I've only ever done one.  Monty worked it
>>>>>>> perfectly, but because the group didn't understand the finer points
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we work they all thought he had made several mistakes.  I tried to
>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>> the subtleties, but there just isn't time in these sorts of
>>>>>>> presentations. I
>>>>>>> left feeling very frustrated.
>>
>>>>>>> I have also done presentations at schools, visually impaired peer
>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>> groups, the senior center and of course it comes up from time to
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I'm doing presentations for work.  A couple of years ago I was
>>>>>>> presenting
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a group of business leaders about the county programs I administer
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> think there were just as many questions about the dog as juvenile
>>>>>>> crime.
>>>>>>> *smile*
>>
>>>>>>> If you enjoy these presentations and are looking for places to
>>>>>>> contact to
>>>>>>> offer your time maybe look at church groups, Chamber of Commerce
>>>>>>> member
>>>>>>> events, Health Department, schools, colleges especially the special
>>>>>>> ed or
>>>>>>> diversity studies, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, leadership groups, 4-H,
>>>>>>> children's museums, etc.  Something I have noticed through my county
>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> that more and more anytime there is state or federal grant funding,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> usually some component of diversity or disability or something.
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> trainings held to "educate" the people applying for and manageing
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> grants about these topics.  Although I had never attended a
>>>>>>> "diversity"
>>>>>>> training presented by a "diverse" person...except once.  I don't
>>>>>>> know of
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> easy way to find these opportunities though.
>>
>>>>>>> HTH I hope you have fun and that the people learn a lot!
>>>>>>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Eve Sanchez
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 11:35 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] teaching the public
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Tomorrow there is a canine fashion show being put on as a fund
>>>>>>> raising
>>>>>>> event for a new K--9 for the Yavapaih County Marshalls. There are
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> silly things going on to get the community happy. There also some
>>>>>>> educational things going on to enlighten the community. First on the
>>>>>>> agenda is a presentation by yours truly on guide dogs. I did a
>>>>>>> presentation with my dog just last week during a dinner and know
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is an upcoming presentation on the schedule with a local
>>>>>>> church
>>>>>>> group. In other words, I am busy becoming an ambassador and educater
>>>>>>> about guide dogs and guide dog users. I am sure that many of you
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> done these types of things also and would love to hear about your
>>>>>>> experiences. It is not that I am some great speaker or anything. I
>>>>>>> just get asked. Also, in my community, there are a total of three
>>>>>>> guide dogs. WE JUST DONT HAVE THE NUMBERS
>>>>>>> I would really like to hear about what you all do with your dogs,
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> to compare, but to get more ideas of how we could all get involved
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> what others do that might be good ideas to borrow on. Thanks, Eve
>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>>
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>>>> --
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>
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>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>>   FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future
>>
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