[nagdu] Fake service dogs

Mon Apr 22 01:07:10 UTC 2013

Well, I am not from Pa and yet I agree also about disabled parking
passes. Actually, about the whole disability thing. I do have other
issues though, that at times make walking almost impossible. Only at
times and especially when cold. Since I lived in Eastern Idaho, where
it is freezing 10 months out of the year, I wanted a pass, just in
case. The only way I was able to get one was because of blindness,
since my other issue responds to exercise and so my doctor did not
want to authorize for that reason. I have had my pass for over a year
and only used it about half a dozen times, but I know I have it if
needed. I hated saying I am disabled because I am blind, especially
with a dog which helps my mobility. Eve

On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Ken Ace <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
> Buddy,
> Ditto, I couldn't agree more. By the way I was born and raised in
> southwestern PA. Not that it has anything to do with anything except people
> from that area seem to view things a little differently.
> Ken & Ace
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:48 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs
>
> Ken,
>
> On this we agree completely. I personally think that, in general, and
> assuming blindness is your only disability, blind people don't have any
> business getting, nor need for, handicapped parking placards. If your
> sighted driver wants the closer parking spot, have them get their own
> @#$%^&@@@!!!ing placard. No problem walking, and as far as I know, there's
> no connection between your eyeballs and optic nerves and your legs.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2013, at 7:14 PM, "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
>
>> HI All.
>> I had no idea I was soooo far out of touch with so many of you. First
>> I refuse to get a handicap parking pass for our car because I don't
>> consider myself handicapped. I obviously have been a little naive when
>> it comes to buying harnesses and canes but, excuse me, that seems to
>> be the least of our problems however I thank you all for enlightening
>> me. :) Ken & Ace
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Margo and
>> Arrow
>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs
>>
>> Ken, I might suggest that you go for advocacy training and ADA
>> training, etc.  Think in some ways some folks in agencies and
>> businesses are selling you a bill of goods.
>>
>> Margo and Arrow
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy
>> Brannan
>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:25 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs
>>
>>               Hi Ken,
>>
>> Yep, this is a real problem. However, bear in mind, too, that the ADA
>> doesn't lay out any requirements for working gear. So, someone could
>> just have their dog on a leash and say it's a service dog. This of
>> course doesn't mean they're not wrong, or they're not breaking the law
>> (because they are), but it does make distinguishing real service dogs
>> from fake ones a little more difficult. The distinguishing feature
>> here is the training: a service dog must be individually task trained,
>> and the owner can be asked A) if this is a service dog, B) what
>> service has the dog been trained to provide. While we need to
>> understand that our rights as service dog users are not absolute,
>> business proprietors need to also understand their rights, as well as
>> their responsibilities in this regard. I think we've done a good job,
>> or anyway, a pretty good job, of educating as to our access rights,
>> but we've done a less good job educating on 1) the boundaries of such
>> rights, and worse, 2) the
>> *business's*  rights as regards our access and its boundaries. In
>> other words, I think some business owners and managers really *do*
>> believe they have no recourse for an uncontrolled, aggressive, or
>> otherwise poorly maintained service dog that is disrupting the usual
>> course of their business. This likely adds to the problem; I believe
>> that if businesses understood *their* rights in these situations, i.e.
>> they are able to have someone's dog removed from the premises if that
>> dog is not under control, is disruptive, or is otherwise substantially
>> altering the nature of the service provided, we would very likely have
>> a lot less of a problem with fake service dogs.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Buddy, thanks I guess I have been in the bubble of the newly blind. I
>>> appreciate your candid input however I guess I was hoping it were
>>> true as I have seen several people try to pawn their pet off as being
>>> a guide dog just to gain access to pet restricted areas.
>>> Ken & Ace
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy
>>> Brannan
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:41 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>>
>>> This is absolutely, completely, unequivocally incorrect.
>>>
>>> For one thing, of course anyone can buy a white cane. I've never,
>>> ever been asked for proof of blindness to buy a white cane, and there
>>> are several places you can get one.
>>>
>>> As for guide dog harnesses, I've said this a hundred times over the
>>> years, at least. There's nothing magic about guide dog working gear,
>>> or, for that matter, any dog working gear, and i believe the schools
>>> do us all a disservice in their promulgating of the guide dog
>>> mystique in
>> this regard.
>>> While it's true that the harnesses we get from the school are
>>> generally property of the school, there's nothing stopping you from
>>> getting one from somewhere else They're really not terribly
>>> complicated; I expect any decent maker of horse gear, for instance,
>>> could make you one. But there are one or two places that will sell
>>> you a
>> guide dog harness; Bridgeport is one such.
>>> LDS used to be another, and I'm nearly certain there are others besides.
>>> There's of course Paw Power Creations, whose status seems to be a bit
>>> unknown at the moment. Point is, guide dog working gear isn't
>>> particularly special if you know where to look.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2013, at 10:04 AM, "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am obviously misinformed because I am sure we were told by my
>>>> school that "Harnesses are always the property of the school and
>>>> where you get replacements". They likened it to white canes, you
>>>> just can't go out and buy a white cane if you haven't gone through
>>>> the
>> training.
>>>> Does anyone have any input?
>>>> Ken & Ace
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christel
>>>> Sogenbits
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:55 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> It is very interesting question for me allso beacuse we have only
>>>> one kind of harnesses  here. Allso I would be really happy and
>>>> thankful if somebody wants to write me offlist  and describe their
>>>> harnesses or send
>>> pictures.
>>>> I can  do picture  of my guides harnesses and write there what part
>>>> of it is made of metal and what part is made from leather if
>>>> somebody is
>>> interested.
>>>> Allso I can send you pictures do show how  they are on my dog.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tervitades / With greetings
>>>> Christel Sogenbits
>>>> GSM: +372 58 440 521
>>>> E-mail: christel.chrissu at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christel.chrissu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon L.
>>>> Dillon
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 11:21 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>>
>>>> Hi, does anyone know where to get guide dog harnesses (other than
>>>> the ones we can get from our schools)? I got my previous harness
>>>> from Paw Power Creations but their web site doesn't seem to be
>>>> functioning anymore.  I'm looking for another lightweight, flexible,
>>>> nonleather harness  to use on the beach this summer, and I would
>>>> have gotten it from Paw Power Creations if they were up and running.
>>>> I love my old one but I had it made without stabilizer loops and I
>>>> wanted to have one
>>> made with the stabilizer loops.
>>>> Does anyone know of alternatives?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> -Shannon and Yalie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: graduate56 at juno.com
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:57:23 -0600
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>>
>>>>> thats a really good description of the exhibit hall.
>>>>> I remember when I took my girl to convention for the first time. We
>>>>> got through the crowd in the exhibit hall and to tables. She found
>>>>> the Gdf table right away. she was so happy with herself for it. She
>>>>> knows her school.
>>>>> Lol!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Melissa and Pj
>>>>> Find me on:
>>>>> Twitter melissa5674
>>>>> facebook Melissa R Green
>>>>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mary,
>>>>>
>>>>> So glad the surgery went well. Please give us a call at GDF and
>>>>> Barb can talk to you about recovery and getting back to work with
> Felix.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the national convention, what's really nice about the
>>>>> exhibit hall is that there is a great description printed ahead of
>>>>> time and possibly even a tactile map you can look at prior to going
>>>>> in so you know where you are going.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use the "Find the counter" command a lot to have Swap take me to
>>>>> the edges of tables when he can. Sometimes, and not to be crude
>>>>> here, you just encounter a wall of butts. That's why when reaching
>>>>> out to see what's in front of me, I use the back of my hand
>>>>> initially to see how close we are to people. <grin>
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
>>>>> Wurtzel
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 1:18 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to share about my recent surgery and how it went fore
>>>>> Felix and
>>>> me.
>>>>> First, for some reason, the hospital said I could bring my dog but
>>>>> had to find my own way to take him out. I didn't have family who
>>>>> could be there whenever Felix needed to go out. I decided to board
>>>>> him at the vet for the three days I was in the hospital. That went
> fine.
>>>>> The rehabilitation facility allowed me to bring my dog. They were
>>>>> willing to have staff to take him out. I could not walk for two
>>>>> weeks after surgery.
>>>>> I am very grateful to all of the nursing care aids who took Felix
>>>>> out for me.
>>>>> Felix was on a tie-down on one side of my bed. I was fortunate to
>>>>> have a private room.
>>>>> Friends of mine who also have guide dogs came and groomed and
>>>>> exercised Felix for me.
>>>>> I took him on leash with me to the dining room in a wheelchair.
>>>>> Because I did not use the harness, I let people pet him. The other
>>>>> clients and the staff really enjoyed having a dog to pet. Some of
>>>>> the people were seniors who had ffallen or had replacement type
>> surgeries.
>>>>> They love to remember dogs that they had during their lives.
>>>>> It was kind of neat because Felix seemed to know I was in pain. He
>>>>> would come right up to the side of the bed and stand close so I
>>>>> could pet
>>>> him.
>>>>> After two and a half weeks I could come home. I have a boot on my
>>>>> foot and still cannot work Felix. I worry about this. I now have
>>>>> about a week and a half before I can walk again.
>>>>> I have let Felix out in the fenced in yard to play with our pet dog.
>>>>> My husband took Felix for a walk, but he dragged back and wouldn't go.
>>>>> All I can think is that maybe he didn't want to leave me.
>>>>> This surgery is hopefully going to make it possible for me to have
>>>>> better balance when I walk. I am excited to see how successful it
>>>>> will be. I am just praying that my pup will still remember how to
>>>>> be a guide
>>>> dog.
>>>>> I am so blessed to have such wonderful friends and a great family.
>>>>> This will be my first national convention to have a guide dog. I
>>>>> think the thing I dread the most is going to the exhibit hall with
>>>>> a dog
>>> guide.
>>>>> I AM SO ENJOYING THIS LIST AND HOPE TO MEET SOME OF OUR FOLKS IN
>> Orlando.
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>>> Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:29 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] coming on command - was no follow up
>>>>>
>>>>> My first dog Glade thought running away and not coming were a great
>>>>> game. A
>>>>>
>>>>> couple times, she accidently got loose, and I had a heck of a time
>>>>> catching her again. She would always come when she saw her harness,
>>>>> though, so I'd try to get close enough to her to show it to her,
>>>>> and the game would be over.
>>>>>
>>>>> I quote the Irish Rovers, sort of:
>>>>> Those labradors were hiding, playing silly games.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the Unicorn song, explaining why there aren't any more around.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Daniel" <daniel.sweeney1 at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:07 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] coming on command - was no follow up
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Eve and everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was having the same problems with having Cass coming to me when
>>>>>> I called, and to some extent still do. Although I never allow her
>>>>>> to be off leash in the common area behind my townhome, I will go
>>>>>> out on a 25 foot leash and practice recall with food treats. This
>>>>>> is what my field rep advised me when she visited me on my second
>>>>>> month home after complaining about this problem.
>>>>>> I explained to her that I was having problems with recall both in
>>>>>> and out of the house. After returning home and keeping Cass on
>>>>>> leash for about 5 weeks, I let her off and when I called her she
>>>>>> would not come to me. We would do obedience training, sit, down,
>>>>>> stay, and come at short distances and she would do just fine, but
>>>>>> when we were at ease she would not come to me when
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> called. Talk about frustrating - to be upstairs and call and have
>>>>>> no dog come, or to be ten feet away and call her to come to me and
>>>>>> she would just ignore me. Things really came to a head when I went
>>>>>> to a friend's house and she was playing in the yard with his dogs.
>>>>>> He called his dogs to come in and Cass refused to come inside. He
>>>>>> went to the back door and she would run from my friend. I went to
>>>>>> the door and she would ignore my command to come inside. I finally
>>>>>> was able to get her to come inside by filling her food bowl, and
>>>>>> then snagging her with the leash. That was the last time she was
>>>>>> off leash until the field rep came. We started working with high
>>>>>> value food rewards. This has seemed to work for the most part, but
>>>>>> there are still some occasional instances where she will stay just
>>>>>> out of my reach when I call her, and not come to me as if I am
>>>>>> playing a game. Needless to say this really ticks me off since I
>>>>>> have never had a dog that has done this. I have had quite a few
>>>>>> dogs. She has a HUGE stubborn streak. I would never let her be off
>>>>>> leash outside unless the area was securely enclosed, and then only
>>>>>> with hesitation. I am just glad she is food motivated. The fact
>>>>>> that we have only been together for a bit over 4 months lets me
>>>>>> think that in time she will become a little more attached and this
>>>>>> problem will solve itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I apologize for the long winded emails, but when I get going, I
>>>>>> really get going.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel and Cass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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