[nagdu] Suggestions needed!

Sat Aug 17 05:39:32 UTC 2013

Nicole, one issue I see with that is it might not be the dog! It could be 
that for some reason, the handler may not be able or unwilling to control 
it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!


> Maybe it could be required on a yearly basis or two years or something? 
> Or,
> maybe as an alternative, if a business owner thinks that a dog that is 
> being
> called a service dog is misbehaving too much, then the business owner 
> could
> report the dog to someone (not sure who) and the dog could then go through
> the test. This might be better than requiring everyone to do the test.
> However, having the test on some sort of regular schedule might not be a 
> bad
> idea, even for organization trained dogs as I know that it is possible for 
> a
> dog's behavior to get out of hand once he/she is placed with a handler.
> Sometimes, it is something that the handler is doing and sometimes it is
> not.
> Something else that might helpful, but that could also be misused, is some
> sort of description of what sort of dogs usually do certain services. For
> example, most guide dogs wear harnesses and need to be large enough to
> effectively  guide their handlers. Also, maybe there are certain breeds 
> that
> are more questionable as service dogs than others because they are more 
> high
> strung or for whatever other reason.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:12 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>
> Well, if there were a way for that to be administered that would actually
> work, it could be worth consideration, at least. There is the question of
> how that is paid for and by whom, to begin with. Where would the testing
> take place? And so on.
>
> Also, to what extent would the test guarantee that the dogs continue to be
> well-behaved and that the handlers continue to maintain that part of the
> training and so on.
>
> Also, how is that certification then used? Do we have to show it 
> everywhere
> we go? Is that a good idea? Can we produce a proof of this certification
> that cannot be forged?
>
> I've seen some proposed sample tests that seem sensible and reasonable, 
> with
> fairly specific requirements for the testing. However, there is still the
> problem of administration and financing on a large scale. So I have never
> come up with an idea of how to even start there. Maybe someone else has?
>
> On 08/16/2013 08:27 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
>> Would requiring some kind of behavior  test be considered too much
>> certification?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D.
>> Keeler
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>>
>> Tami, I think the formost issue with me is does the dog behave when
>> asked and does the handler know how to handle the dog! Grooming and
>> general health is also important because iether the dog may be
>> bringing its own pets with it or sometimes, Not always, it can reflect
>> badly on the handler. A handler may be slipping in maintaining the
>> dogs appearance due to lack of money, time or just lack of interest. I
>> know that many folks will disaggree with me but I also think that an
>> ID, tradmark harness or for owner trained teams some kind of state
>> issued sticker be obtained so that a service dog can be distinguished 
>> from
> any other dog. A perfect example is my dughters friend.
>> She has a jack Russell terrier named Trouble! She is a owner trained
>> hearing dog. The dog is cute and well behaved but, I can forsee many
>> folks confusing her with a pet. For me, I wonder wher the line between
>> being private about why you need a dog and what that dog does for you
>> conflicts with the general publics seeming need to declare there dogs
>> as service dogs! At some point, there has to be a clear line instead
>> of the big grey void folks seem to have now. I met a woman at the train
> station last year on the way to convention.
>> William and I were taking the train and I sure hope she wasn't! At
>> least she wasn't in our car! Anyway, she had a little terier, and the
>> thing barked, growled and tried to come at our dogs! She had to walk
>> down the tracks quite away down the tracks and her dog was still going
>> off! Interestingly, she claimed it was for PTSD. That thing would have
>> caused it instead of relieving it! I really didn't know how to handle
>> the situation other than william and I controlling our dogs while hers
>> cut loose! I mean, who or how do you report a situation where the dog
>> is clearly in dubious territory iether because of its or the handlers
>> lack of controlling behavior? At least with guide dogs you can call a
>> school or talk to a friend and check to see if the behavior is normal
>> for a service dog! And, I can tell good owner trainers because they
>> keep there dogs under control. I wonder what or how penalties can be
>> assessed to folks who are not being truthful about the service or lack
>> of services that the dog performs. As long as there is no requirment
>> that can't be faked or we are not required to have some proof that the
>> dog does the service. we'll always have folks sneaking nonservice animals
> under the wire!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:39 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>>
>>
>>> Okay, following up on Ken's suggestion, I opened my mouth and now
>>> have a writing project. I blame Ken! /grin/
>>>
>>> Seriously, I do think it might be nice to have some semi-formalized
>>> collection of those rules of etiquette that most of us here just take
>>> for granted and that we work so diligently to follow. The
>> "responsibilities"
>>> part of our rights and responsibilities. Most of those I have learned
>>> from a lot of you, whether it's what you learned from your schools or
>>> the experience of years of real world guide dog use. So this seemed a
>>> good place to ask again! /smile/
>>>
>>> What do we -- with "we" being responsible, considerate service dog
>>> users -- consider important when we take our dogs into public? What
>>> is good etiquette in our dogs? What is good etiquette for us humans?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of a couple of categories for the dogs:
>>>
>>> 1) Grooming and health
>>> 2) public behavior
>>>
>>> For the humans... I haven't figured out neat categories for that yet.
>>> I'm thinking of good dog management -- keep the dog out of the aisle,
>>> stuff like that. Maybe a bit about how to manage lines and so forth.
>>>
>>> I think I'll include a "what to do when..." As we have seen from the
>>> convention debriefing... Not everybody knows that it's bad form to
>>> walk off and leave the smelling mess for someone to step in. Ugh! And
>>> what about those times your perfectly well trained dog goes klepto in
>>> the supermarket? I say pay for it; others say, "oh, well." I've only
>>> had to buy an unintended stuffed animal, if anyone is wondering.
>>> /lol/
>>>
>>> I have a few items I might address for interactions with other
>>> service dog users... Hm...
>>>
>>> Anyway, if anyone has suggestions they would like to see included,
>>> you can write me off list at tami at poodlemutt.com. It might also be
>>> fun to discuss some of these things on the list. I'm thinking of the
>>> recent discussion about riding in cabs. We all have different ways of
>>> doing the same thing and smoothing over the rough spots we encounter
>>> in a
>> crowded busy world.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
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>>
>>
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