[nagdu] Suggestions needed!

Sat Aug 17 05:59:24 UTC 2013

Sorry, but to which part of my message were you referring ?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!

Nicole, one issue I see with that is it might not be the dog! It could be
that for some reason, the handler may not be able or unwilling to control
it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!

> Maybe it could be required on a yearly basis or two years or something? 
> Or,
> maybe as an alternative, if a business owner thinks that a dog that is 
> being called a service dog is misbehaving too much, then the business 
> owner could report the dog to someone (not sure who) and the dog could 
> then go through the test. This might be better than requiring everyone 
> to do the test.
> However, having the test on some sort of regular schedule might not be 
> a bad idea, even for organization trained dogs as I know that it is 
> possible for a dog's behavior to get out of hand once he/she is placed 
> with a handler.
> Sometimes, it is something that the handler is doing and sometimes it 
> is not.
> Something else that might helpful, but that could also be misused, is 
> some sort of description of what sort of dogs usually do certain 
> services. For example, most guide dogs wear harnesses and need to be 
> large enough to effectively  guide their handlers. Also, maybe there 
> are certain breeds that are more questionable as service dogs than 
> others because they are more high strung or for whatever other reason.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:12 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>
> Well, if there were a way for that to be administered that would 
> actually work, it could be worth consideration, at least. There is the 
> question of how that is paid for and by whom, to begin with. Where 
> would the testing take place? And so on.
>
> Also, to what extent would the test guarantee that the dogs continue 
> to be well-behaved and that the handlers continue to maintain that 
> part of the training and so on.
>
> Also, how is that certification then used? Do we have to show it 
> everywhere we go? Is that a good idea? Can we produce a proof of this 
> certification that cannot be forged?
>
> I've seen some proposed sample tests that seem sensible and 
> reasonable, with fairly specific requirements for the testing. 
> However, there is still the problem of administration and financing on 
> a large scale. So I have never come up with an idea of how to even 
> start there. Maybe someone else has?
>
> On 08/16/2013 08:27 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
>> Would requiring some kind of behavior  test be considered too much 
>> certification?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D.
>> Keeler
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>>
>> Tami, I think the formost issue with me is does the dog behave when 
>> asked and does the handler know how to handle the dog! Grooming and 
>> general health is also important because iether the dog may be 
>> bringing its own pets with it or sometimes, Not always, it can 
>> reflect badly on the handler. A handler may be slipping in 
>> maintaining the dogs appearance due to lack of money, time or just 
>> lack of interest. I know that many folks will disaggree with me but I 
>> also think that an ID, tradmark harness or for owner trained teams 
>> some kind of state issued sticker be obtained so that a service dog 
>> can be distinguished from
> any other dog. A perfect example is my dughters friend.
>> She has a jack Russell terrier named Trouble! She is a owner trained 
>> hearing dog. The dog is cute and well behaved but, I can forsee many 
>> folks confusing her with a pet. For me, I wonder wher the line 
>> between being private about why you need a dog and what that dog does 
>> for you conflicts with the general publics seeming need to declare 
>> there dogs as service dogs! At some point, there has to be a clear 
>> line instead of the big grey void folks seem to have now. I met a 
>> woman at the train
> station last year on the way to convention.
>> William and I were taking the train and I sure hope she wasn't! At 
>> least she wasn't in our car! Anyway, she had a little terier, and the 
>> thing barked, growled and tried to come at our dogs! She had to walk 
>> down the tracks quite away down the tracks and her dog was still 
>> going off! Interestingly, she claimed it was for PTSD. That thing 
>> would have caused it instead of relieving it! I really didn't know 
>> how to handle the situation other than william and I controlling our 
>> dogs while hers cut loose! I mean, who or how do you report a 
>> situation where the dog is clearly in dubious territory iether 
>> because of its or the handlers lack of controlling behavior? At least 
>> with guide dogs you can call a school or talk to a friend and check 
>> to see if the behavior is normal for a service dog! And, I can tell 
>> good owner trainers because they keep there dogs under control. I 
>> wonder what or how penalties can be assessed to folks who are not 
>> being truthful about the service or lack of services that the dog 
>> performs. As long as there is no requirment that can't be faked or we 
>> are not required to have some proof that the dog does the service. 
>> we'll always have folks sneaking nonservice animals
> under the wire!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:39 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Suggestions needed!
>>
>>
>>> Okay, following up on Ken's suggestion, I opened my mouth and now 
>>> have a writing project. I blame Ken! /grin/
>>>
>>> Seriously, I do think it might be nice to have some semi-formalized 
>>> collection of those rules of etiquette that most of us here just 
>>> take for granted and that we work so diligently to follow. The
>> "responsibilities"
>>> part of our rights and responsibilities. Most of those I have 
>>> learned from a lot of you, whether it's what you learned from your 
>>> schools or the experience of years of real world guide dog use. So 
>>> this seemed a good place to ask again! /smile/
>>>
>>> What do we -- with "we" being responsible, considerate service dog 
>>> users -- consider important when we take our dogs into public? What 
>>> is good etiquette in our dogs? What is good etiquette for us humans?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of a couple of categories for the dogs:
>>>
>>> 1) Grooming and health
>>> 2) public behavior
>>>
>>> For the humans... I haven't figured out neat categories for that yet.
>>> I'm thinking of good dog management -- keep the dog out of the 
>>> aisle, stuff like that. Maybe a bit about how to manage lines and so
forth.
>>>
>>> I think I'll include a "what to do when..." As we have seen from the 
>>> convention debriefing... Not everybody knows that it's bad form to 
>>> walk off and leave the smelling mess for someone to step in. Ugh! 
>>> And what about those times your perfectly well trained dog goes 
>>> klepto in the supermarket? I say pay for it; others say, "oh, well." 
>>> I've only had to buy an unintended stuffed animal, if anyone is
wondering.
>>> /lol/
>>>
>>> I have a few items I might address for interactions with other 
>>> service dog users... Hm...
>>>
>>> Anyway, if anyone has suggestions they would like to see included, 
>>> you can write me off list at tami at poodlemutt.com. It might also be 
>>> fun to discuss some of these things on the list. I'm thinking of the 
>>> recent discussion about riding in cabs. We all have different ways 
>>> of doing the same thing and smoothing over the rough spots we 
>>> encounter in a
>> crowded busy world.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
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>>
>>
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