[nagdu] Owner trainers

[Margo Downey and Arrow]

What saddens me some is that very often blind folks don't even envision
ourselves as owner-trainers.  This does not mean that all of us should do
that.  But, I think email lists and conference calls and face-to-face
communication with our blind peers help us to really know the possibilities
are endless for us.  

Margo andarrow

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:01 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers

Hi Julie,

Thank you so much for all of your responses; it truly is fascinating.
I agree with others that I don't have the stuff to owner train a guide dog.
The patience and time commitment is really incredible. I'm just curious when
you say that the programs out there didn't have the breeds that you wanted,
Are there a particular breed that you like to train more than others and are
there specific reasons why? I'm relatively new to this dog stuff so I'm
super interested.

Thanks
Minh

On 8/20/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Bridget and all,
>
> I'll try to answer all your questions.  If I miss something let me know.
>
> When I finished training Monty, 4 years ago now, I knew I didn't have 
> it in
>
> me to owner train again, at least not the next dog.   It is an absolutely
> incredible amount of work.  It's not particularly difficult, but the 
> commitment of time and labor is immense.  It's very rewarding though.
>
> When I thought about going to a program for my next dog, I wasn't 
> feeling the warm fuzzy excitement that seems to be the norm.  It felt 
> more like the
>
> dentist...something I had to do if I wanted the rewards.  I think I 
> considered every program out there.  I even contacted one or two.  I 
> looked
>
> at all their rules, their contracts, their expectations, the time 
> away, the
>
> available breeds and I just wasn't feeling the love.  I knew what I 
> wanted and it wasn't available all at one program.
>
> In the end I went with a private trainer.   It was the best option for me
at
>
> this time in my life.  Five years ago, owner training was the best 
> fit.  In
>
> 20 years when Miss Jetta is ready for a life of luxury on the couch, 
> maybe I'll owner train again or go to a program or go back to a cane 
> or go the private trainer route.  I don't know.  What I'm trying to 
> say, is that we all choose what is best for ourselves and that no 
> choice is inherently better than another. It totally depends on the person
and their situation.
>
> There is no certification, registration or licensure currently 
> available for
>
> service dogs.  The federal government has clearly stated that no ID, 
> registration or certification can be legally asked for by businesses.  
> The ID's that the various schools give out are strictly a product of 
> that particular school.  Legally they are meaningless.  If I printed 
> out an ID card on my computer and laminated it, it would be exactly 
> the same as yours
>
> in it's legitimacy.
>
> With Monty I started out with a goal of 100 hours of harness training.  
> This
>
> was actual time in harness working on skills, not time in a car 
> waiting to get someplace or time resting under a table or something.  
> Most of the programs provide something like 30 to 60 hours.  I also 
> kept records of our
>
> activities, hours and progress notes, just in case I would ever need 
> to prove his training in court.  A pretty remote possibility, but I'm of
the
> opinion better safe than sorry.   I considered him  fully trained when he
> could work reliably in a variety of routine places that I commonly 
> went.  I
>
> tend to lean on the side of extreme caution so he was probably ready 
> long before I was ready.  Anyway when I started taking him to work 
> with me was the official transition between in training and trained.  
> After a month at work with no major problems, we had his graduation 
> party.  Here graduations
>
> are on the back patio and include, family, maybe a couple of close 
> friends,
>
> burgers and beer.  The dogs get to run around in the fenced yard and be
> dogs.   I'm not too much into speeches, so we skip that part. *smile*
>
> Gear...there is still a wide variety of guide and service dog gear 
> retailers
>
> on the internet.  One of these days I'll compile a list of links and 
> any personal experience with the equipment if I 've ordered from them.  
> I kinda
>
> have gone a bit nuts in the gear department.  I've had harnesses from 
> five companies, I think.  Mostly though I make my own.  I've tried the 
> other available harnesses and they are never exactly what I wanted or 
> it doesn't fit quite right or something.  I end up taking stuff apart, 
> adding and removing, until it's more my work than the original anyway.  
> The harness I'm
>
> using now is one I made.
>
> In all the years I've been working my owner trained guides, I've only 
> ever been asked for ID once.  that time it had nothing to do with 
> Monty being owner trained.  A previous guest at the hotel had told the 
> clerk that all service dogs should have ID's and should show them.  So 
> the clerk believed him.  I provided her with the information she 
> needed.  Later that afternoon
>
> another person in my group arrived with his guide and wasn't asked for ID.
>
> I do get asked if Monty is a service dog somewhat frequently, 
> especially at
>
> Wal-Mart.  It's legally allowed so I have no problem with them asking.  
> I answer honestly and we move along.  There is no way to distinguish 
> an owner
>
> trained dog from a program trained dog without asking the handler.  
> I'm quite open with the fact that I've owner trained and I live in a 
> very small
>
> town.  I expect that most people who care about such things could ask 
> around
>
> and get whatever information they wanted about me and my dogs.  It has 
> never
>
> been a problem.
>
> Again, it's the behavior.  When I go in a store Monty is well behaved 
> and he's obviously functioning as a guide dog.  People get it and 
> don't bother me about it.  Just yesterday afternoon, I was walking 
> home from work.  As I
>
> passed a house, I heard a little kid ask his parent, "is that lady blind?"
> The way that Monty and I work together is close enough to what he's 
> seen on
>
> TV about guide dogs that it matched up in his mind and he made the 
> connection.
>
> A few years ago at a convention with my previous guide, Belle, I was 
> asked by a program trainer if my dog was from some other particular 
> program.  I've
>
> forgotten which one.  The program trainers can't tell an owner trained dog
> from a program dog either.   And that's how it should be.
>
> Julie
>
>
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--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

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