[nagdu] Owner trainers

Tue Aug 20 15:09:46 UTC 2013

Yes, I really wanted a Boxer or Doberman.  They are working breeds, instead 
of sporting or herding.  the working breeds are more serious, intensely 
dedicated to their job.  They don't mind people, but are generally strongly 
attached to their person and don't seek attention from others.  These two 
breeds also have short coats that are easier on my husband's allergies.

There are currently only two programs that offer Boxers and Dobermans, 
Gallant Hearts and Pilot.  Other big considerations to picking a program for 
me were  ownership and method of training.  Gallant Hearts offers 
co-ownership and Pilot offers ownership, but I've never seen their contract, 
so I don't know exactly what they mean by ownership.  I also wanted a dog 
who was trained through positive methods, including food rewards and not 
involving leash corrections early in the training.  Neither of these two 
schools uses clicker training.

So if I wanted my German working dog, positive training, food rewards, 
involvement in choosing my particular dog, additional training for my 
balance issue and full and complete ownership, I had the choice of owner 
training or hiring a trainer.

What it comes down to, is figuring out what is what you want, what you need 
and what is non negotiable.  Once I stopped trying to convince myself that I 
might be okay with a correction trained dog or a lab or not completely 
owning my dog, things became much simpler and less stressful.  At that point 
it was easy to see the choices and pick one.

I ended up with Jetta, who is a Doberman, complete ownership and a trainer 
who is dedicated to positive training methods.  It's the right choice for 
me.  Not saying it's the right choice for anyone else, but I think each of 
us knows when we've found the place where we need to be.  It feels right, 
like everything has finally clicked into place.  It's a very peaceful 
feeling.

Julie

-----Original Message----- 
From: minh ha
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:00 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers

Hi Julie,

Thank you so much for all of your responses; it truly is fascinating.
I agree with others that I don't have the stuff to owner train a guide
dog. The patience and time commitment is really incredible. I'm just
curious when you say that the programs out there didn't have the
breeds that you wanted, Are there a particular breed that you like to
train more than others and are there specific reasons why? I'm
relatively new to this dog stuff so I'm super interested.

Thanks
Minh

On 8/20/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Bridget and all,
>
> I'll try to answer all your questions.  If I miss something let me know.
>
> When I finished training Monty, 4 years ago now, I knew I didn't have it 
> in
>
> me to owner train again, at least not the next dog.   It is an absolutely
> incredible amount of work.  It's not particularly difficult, but the
> commitment of time and labor is immense.  It's very rewarding though.
>
> When I thought about going to a program for my next dog, I wasn't feeling
> the warm fuzzy excitement that seems to be the norm.  It felt more like 
> the
>
> dentist...something I had to do if I wanted the rewards.  I think I
> considered every program out there.  I even contacted one or two.  I 
> looked
>
> at all their rules, their contracts, their expectations, the time away, 
> the
>
> available breeds and I just wasn't feeling the love.  I knew what I wanted
> and it wasn't available all at one program.
>
> In the end I went with a private trainer.   It was the best option for me 
> at
>
> this time in my life.  Five years ago, owner training was the best fit. 
> In
>
> 20 years when Miss Jetta is ready for a life of luxury on the couch, maybe
> I'll owner train again or go to a program or go back to a cane or go the
> private trainer route.  I don't know.  What I'm trying to say, is that we
> all choose what is best for ourselves and that no choice is inherently
> better than another. It totally depends on the person and their situation.
>
> There is no certification, registration or licensure currently available 
> for
>
> service dogs.  The federal government has clearly stated that no ID,
> registration or certification can be legally asked for by businesses.  The
> ID's that the various schools give out are strictly a product of that
> particular school.  Legally they are meaningless.  If I printed out an ID
> card on my computer and laminated it, it would be exactly the same as 
> yours
>
> in it's legitimacy.
>
> With Monty I started out with a goal of 100 hours of harness training. 
> This
>
> was actual time in harness working on skills, not time in a car waiting to
> get someplace or time resting under a table or something.  Most of the
> programs provide something like 30 to 60 hours.  I also kept records of 
> our
>
> activities, hours and progress notes, just in case I would ever need to
> prove his training in court.  A pretty remote possibility, but I'm of the
> opinion better safe than sorry.   I considered him  fully trained when he
> could work reliably in a variety of routine places that I commonly went. 
> I
>
> tend to lean on the side of extreme caution so he was probably ready long
> before I was ready.  Anyway when I started taking him to work with me was
> the official transition between in training and trained.  After a month at
> work with no major problems, we had his graduation party.  Here 
> graduations
>
> are on the back patio and include, family, maybe a couple of close 
> friends,
>
> burgers and beer.  The dogs get to run around in the fenced yard and be
> dogs.   I'm not too much into speeches, so we skip that part. *smile*
>
> Gear...there is still a wide variety of guide and service dog gear 
> retailers
>
> on the internet.  One of these days I'll compile a list of links and any
> personal experience with the equipment if I 've ordered from them.  I 
> kinda
>
> have gone a bit nuts in the gear department.  I've had harnesses from five
> companies, I think.  Mostly though I make my own.  I've tried the other
> available harnesses and they are never exactly what I wanted or it doesn't
> fit quite right or something.  I end up taking stuff apart, adding and
> removing, until it's more my work than the original anyway.  The harness 
> I'm
>
> using now is one I made.
>
> In all the years I've been working my owner trained guides, I've only ever
> been asked for ID once.  that time it had nothing to do with Monty being
> owner trained.  A previous guest at the hotel had told the clerk that all
> service dogs should have ID's and should show them.  So the clerk believed
> him.  I provided her with the information she needed.  Later that 
> afternoon
>
> another person in my group arrived with his guide and wasn't asked for ID.
>
> I do get asked if Monty is a service dog somewhat frequently, especially 
> at
>
> Wal-Mart.  It's legally allowed so I have no problem with them asking.  I
> answer honestly and we move along.  There is no way to distinguish an 
> owner
>
> trained dog from a program trained dog without asking the handler.  I'm
> quite open with the fact that I've owner trained and I live in a very 
> small
>
> town.  I expect that most people who care about such things could ask 
> around
>
> and get whatever information they wanted about me and my dogs.  It has 
> never
>
> been a problem.
>
> Again, it's the behavior.  When I go in a store Monty is well behaved and
> he's obviously functioning as a guide dog.  People get it and don't bother
> me about it.  Just yesterday afternoon, I was walking home from work.  As 
> I
>
> passed a house, I heard a little kid ask his parent, "is that lady blind?"
> The way that Monty and I work together is close enough to what he's seen 
> on
>
> TV about guide dogs that it matched up in his mind and he made the
> connection.
>
> A few years ago at a convention with my previous guide, Belle, I was asked
> by a program trainer if my dog was from some other particular program. 
> I've
>
> forgotten which one.  The program trainers can't tell an owner trained dog
> from a program dog either.   And that's how it should be.
>
> Julie
>
>
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-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

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